Court Defence advice please

bob5678

KeithP said:

bob5678 said:

Fruitcake said:

I repeat, forget 9 2 e

Look at 9 2 f

Hi will forget that point - thanks
I think they do comply with 9 2 f
from NTK
"We now request this amount is paid using one of the payment methods described overleaf. If within 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains funpaid from the keeper of the vehicle."

So once again, with POFA 9(6) in mind, tell us when those 29 days start?

the issue date - March 4th 2019

KeithP

You have two days to file your Defence.

Just add the words that @Fruitcake suggested. You can argue the rest in the months to come - if you can still find someone to argue with. 

bob5678

although maybe that is unclear?

KeithP

bob5678 said:

KeithP said:

bob5678 said:

Fruitcake said:

I repeat, forget 9 2 e

Look at 9 2 f

Hi will forget that point - thanks
I think they do comply with 9 2 f
from NTK
"We now request this amount is paid using one of the payment methods described overleaf. If within 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains funpaid from the keeper of the vehicle."

So once again, with POFA 9(6) in mind, tell us when those 29 days start?

the issue date - March 4th 2019

So you haven't considered para 9(6) of POFA then?

bob5678

Fruitcake said:

You are rushing this. Slow down and be more thorough.

You need to compare the wording on your NTK about the 29 days with the wording on PoFA 2012 9 (2) (f) and play spot the difference.

The PoFA tells you when the 29 days starts. Your NTK does not.

Take your time and compare the two word by word, then tell us when the 29 days starts according to your NTK.

Ok will go and re-read and cross-check

Fruitcake

bob5678 said:

Re. a defence about bad signing, how detailed should I be at this stage regarding issues with signage - I understand not to attach any evidence.
But would a bullet point list of different issues be a good idea? 
- eg, font size, height of sign, volume of text on sign, broken lightbulbs, darkness, bad positioning of signs, lack of signs in certain places, confusion around boundaries of public and private land, and also of different areas of private land each with different sets of parking rules.
(edited for clarity)

Signage is already covered in the template. Please, please look at para 9 (2) (f) as per my previous post, and stop going off on tangents.

You are rushing this when you should be trying to understand what we are telling you about the NTK failure.

bob5678

KeithP said:

You have two days to file your Defence.

Just add the words that @Fruitcake suggested. You can argue the rest in the months to come - if you can still find someone to argue with. 

Just to be clear - these words:
"something about the NTK failing to comply with the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012 and therefore incapable of holding the keeper liable. 
Expand on that at the WS and exhibits stage."

And I sincerely hope you are right!

Redx

As a keeper non driver you need to assert they failed POFA and be prepared to argue it in a witness statement and to a judge in court such that the judge makes a decision based on what the people here are telling you , it's a complicated issue that hopefully a judge understands

The other points are already included in the defence , SO any additions are concise short bullet points in paragraph 3

Elaborate on all points in your witness statement , with Exhibits , in several months time

So yes put them to strict proof of POFA compliance , let a judge decide

bob5678

Fruitcake said:

bob5678 said:

Re. a defence about bad signing, how detailed should I be at this stage regarding issues with signage - I understand not to attach any evidence.
But would a bullet point list of different issues be a good idea? 
- eg, font size, height of sign, volume of text on sign, broken lightbulbs, darkness, bad positioning of signs, lack of signs in certain places, confusion around boundaries of public and private land, and also of different areas of private land each with different sets of parking rules.
(edited for clarity)

Signage is already covered in the template. Please, please look at para 9 (2) (f) as per my previous post, and stop going off on tangents.

You are rushing this when you should be trying to understand what we are telling you about the NTK failure.

Hi, ok thanks for this.
I have looked at 9 2 f - and I must not be understanding the point you are all helpfully making - as it looks to me like they are compliant with this point

this is from the NTK
"We now request this amount is paid using one of the payment methods described overleaf. If within 29 days we have not received full payment or driver details, under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, we have the right, subject to the requirements of the Act, to recover the parking charge amount that remains funpaid from the keeper of the vehicle."

Fruitcake

bob5678 said:

KeithP said:

You have two days to file your Defence.

Just add the words that @Fruitcake suggested. You can argue the rest in the months to come - if you can still find someone to argue with. 

Just to be clear - these words:
"something about the NTK failing to comply with the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012 and therefore incapable of holding the keeper liable. 
Expand on that at the WS and exhibits stage."

And I sincerely hope you are right!

It is a small point, but YOU need to understand why the NTK fails to comply with the PoFA so you can explain it to the judge.

You need to mention the PoFA failure now, to give you time to understand it by the time you write your WS in several months time. You can say the NTK fails Schedule 4, paragraph 9 (2) (f) in your defence if you wish and therefore the scammers have failed to transfer liability to the keeper, who was not the driver.