Bicycles removed by property manager without my knowledge

Ditzy_Mitzy

pbartlett said:

but a different example - i am passing a skip in the street and help.myself to something from it - a passing observant policeman arrests me for theft - my arguing that i honestly didnt know it was stealing if i took abandoned stuff from a skip will get me precisely nowhere.

Did this actually happen, or are you just speculating?  I'd suggest the latter as removing things from skips and bins is not theft.  The Theft Act provides a specific defence on the basis that the party taking the property believes the owner has given up rights to it.  Putting something in a skip is a perfectly reasonable way of creating the requisite belief.  

pbartlett

Just because the property is in a skip does not mean that the owner of that property has discarded it. A skip is simply a receptacle for miscellaneous items. Just because it happens to be outside your house does not mean that you have relinquished your title to said property. Until such time as the skip owner appears and takes it away, only then do you transfer ownership. That's why we have the "Theft By Finding" provision in the Theft Act.

davidmcn

pbartlett said:

davidmcn said:

Besides, even if it had been a crime, how would reporting it to the police help the OP? The cops don't offer some sort of free debt recovery service.

so if your car window was smashed and your laptop was taken you wouldn't report it to the police on the grounds they don't offer a free debt recovery service?

It wouldn't help me recover the laptop or its value, though, would it?

Whereas, if I knew who had taken it (and it seemed worthwhile), I could sue them, irrespective of whether a crime is involved or whether the police or prosecutors are interested.

pbartlett said:

the managing agent has taken someone else"s property and sold it on - you simply just can't do that, even if you do attach a label first.

So what do you think they are meant to do with abandoned property? Just leave it there until doomsday?

Manxman_in_exile

pbartlett said:

pbartlett said:

davidmcn said:

Besides, even if it had been a crime, how would reporting it to the police help the OP? The cops don't offer some sort of free debt recovery service.

so if your car window was smashed and your laptop was taken you wouldn't report it to the police on the grounds they don't offer a free debt recovery service?

the managing agent has taken someone else"s property and sold it on - you simply just can't do that, even if you do attach a label first.

the managing agent has taken someone else"s property and sold it on - you simply just can't do that, even if you do attach a label first.

You still seem to be confused - nobody has said that the management agents acted properly in disposing of the OP's property.  What people are pointing out is that it is not the criminal offence of theft unless the agents were acting dishonestly, and the available evidence suggests they were not being dishonest.

But that does not mean that the agents were not wrong to do what they did - just that it's not a criminal offence.  The OP's remedy is to sue them for the civil (not criminal) remedy of conversion.

pbartlett said:

so if your car window was smashed and your laptop was taken you wouldn't report it to the police on the grounds they don't offer a free debt recovery service?

If that happened to me of course I'd report it to the police - it's probably at least two criminal offences.  But neither I nor anybody else it happened to would expect the police to recover it or to offer me compensation for the damage or loss.

You are now confusing the commission of an offence and reporting it to the police with giving the OP helpful advice about taking action.  The police can't help him with a remedy.

pbartlett said:

but a different example - i am passing a skip in the street and help.myself to something from it - a passing observant policeman arrests me for theft - my arguing that i honestly didnt know it was stealing if i took abandoned stuff from a skip will get me precisely nowhere.

Are you absolutely certain?  Is it abandoned?  Is anything else relevant?  If you honestly believe it is abandoned and has no owner, is it theft?  Is it possibly something else?

mikb

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

pbartlett said:

but a different example - i am passing a skip in the street and help.myself to something from it - a passing observant policeman arrests me for theft - my arguing that i honestly didnt know it was stealing if i took abandoned stuff from a skip will get me precisely nowhere.

I'd suggest the latter as removing things from skips and bins is not theft. 

It was a poor example anyway, as most items removed from skips are then recycled or upcycled. The OP's situation is completely different, as they are a victim of downcycling, to the tune of two.

jon81uk

pbartlett said:

davidmcn said:

Besides, even if it had been a crime, how would reporting it to the police help the OP? The cops don't offer some sort of free debt recovery service.

so if your car window was smashed and your laptop was taken you wouldn't report it to the police on the grounds they don't offer a free debt recovery service?

the managing agent has taken someone else"s property and sold it on - you simply just can't do that, even if you do attach a label first.

The car belongs to you, so your property was stolen from your property. The bike storage area belongs to the leaseholder. So the OPs property was removed from someone elses property.

So a better analogy is you left your laptop in a taxi, the driver writes two letters to you stating they have it, but they get lost in the post, so the driver thinks you don't want it back as you didn't respond, so they sell the laptop. The driver hasn't stolen it as the gave you the option to collect the abandonded property.

Robbo66

There will be a clause in the lease about leaving personal items in the communal area and what action may be taken, by signing that lease you agree to and understand those terms. It would seem that the management company marked offending items and then wrote to the occupiers giving notice of their intentions and as long as they acted in accordance with the terms in the lease they have acted quite legally.

e19

davidmcn said:

When was the last time you saw your bikes? How much did they sell for? 

I honestly don't remember, but probably around October before it got too cold and cycling around was no longer a good idea. I couldn't find out from the bike shop  

e19

pbartlett said:

the propery manager has comitted the criminal act of theft and you should report the crime to the police

I contacted Citizens Advice and that's what they advised me to do too!

e19

davidmcn said:

pbartlett said:

the propery manager has comitted the criminal act of theft and you should report the crime to the police

You may wish to remind yourself what the definition of theft is before anybody wastes the police's time. 

I contacted the local Citizens Advice and they advised me to report it to the police too. I do agree the management company did not deliberately commit an act of theft so I've not yet reported them.