title deeds do not declare easement rights

justworriedabit

princeofpounds said:

Hi again, thanks for the plan. I don't really understand your post just before that, it was a bit unclear.

But I would be astonished if your neighbour did not have a right of way over this path given everything you have said. Possibly even the next neighbour on the other side of them too, given the green path appears to go along the back of your neighbour's garden too. 

This is a very normal set-up for terraced housing, so people don't need to drag garden stuff or bins through their house.

Thank you, I agree as said in my recent posts as it may be inc in their original title. However, we are almost 100% certain the detached house has no rights as they have their own access to the left and right sides. To the back of our gardens are detached and semi detached Victorian houses and the their fence that backs on to the green bits do not have gates and a bit further down as their is no alley they share a fence with houses on our road.
Thank you for your insight/help.

Land_Registry

davidmcn said:

If it's the case that the LR have marked something on the title plan but for some reason have omitted to explain what it is elsewhere in the title, probably best you check with the LR whether that is actually an error by them (there's a LR rep on the forum who might be able to help - I can't immediately find the usual thread for them).

We wouldn’t (not in my experience anyway) be using green to show an easement. I suspect it’s use is in a deed related to the title but can’t be sure without any specific details. 

If the OP wants to DM or share the title number I’m happy to take a look and do my best to explain what’s registered to make it easier for others to comment further 

justworriedabit

Land_Registry said:

davidmcn said:

If it's the case that the LR have marked something on the title plan but for some reason have omitted to explain what it is elsewhere in the title, probably best you check with the LR whether that is actually an error by them (there's a LR rep on the forum who might be able to help - I can't immediately find the usual thread for them).

We wouldn’t (not in my experience anyway) be using green to show an easement. I suspect it’s use is in a deed related to the title but can’t be sure without any specific details. 

If the OP wants to DM or share the title number I’m happy to take a look and do my best to explain what’s registered to make it easier for others to comment further 

Apologies. The green is only shown in the original title deed when the house was built along with the red lines as per my diagram.
The newer title plans only show the red lines and 'T'.
The title register mentions the red lines as follows.
 The freehold land shown edged  red on plan of the above (our property). Titled filed at registers as being (address our address):

I'm a bit confused, are you the gov agency land registry or a private firm related to MSE, please?

princeofpounds

justworriedabit said:

I'm a bit confused, are you the gov agency land registry or a private firm related to MSE, please?

They are official land registry - it's a government agency but set up as a company (at one point a privatisation was being considered, but it never went ahead).

Unusually for a public sector body, they have been really proactive with outreach to our community and exceptionally helpful as a result. Wish others would be more like that.

greatcrested

justworriedabit said:

Land_Registry said:

davidmcn said:

If it's the case that the LR have marked something on the title plan but for some reason have omitted to explain what it is elsewhere in the title, probably best you check with the LR whether that is actually an error by them (there's a LR rep on the forum who might be able to help - I can't immediately find the usual thread for them).

We wouldn’t (not in my experience anyway) be using green to show an easement. I suspect it’s use is in a deed related to the title but can’t be sure without any specific details. 

If the OP wants to DM or share the title number I’m happy to take a look and do my best to explain what’s registered to make it easier for others to comment further 

Apologies. The green is only shown in the original title deed when the house was built along with the red lines as per my diagram.
The newer title plans only show the red lines and 'T'.
The title register mentions the red lines as follows.
 The freehold land shown edged  red on plan of the above (our property). Titled filed at registers as being (address our address):

I'm a bit confused, are you the gov agency land registry or a private firm related to MSE, please?

So as I said, you have not been quoting from the LR Title.

The deed which you quote - Does the LR Title refer to it at any point?

A historic Deed may or may not still have legal force or relevance.

And the green area on the Plan - can we now assume that this Plan also is not the LR Plan as you implied, but is part of a quite separate, historic, deed?

justworriedabit

princeofpounds said:

justworriedabit said:

I'm a bit confused, are you the gov agency land registry or a private firm related to MSE, please?

They are official land registry - it's a government agency but set up as a company (at one point a privatisation was being considered, but it never went ahead).

Unusually for a public sector body, they have been really proactive with outreach to our community and exceptionally helpful as a result. Wish others would be more like that.

Appreciated.

justworriedabit

greatcrested said:

justworriedabit said:

Land_Registry said:

davidmcn said:

If it's the case that the LR have marked something on the title plan but for some reason have omitted to explain what it is elsewhere in the title, probably best you check with the LR whether that is actually an error by them (there's a LR rep on the forum who might be able to help - I can't immediately find the usual thread for them).

We wouldn’t (not in my experience anyway) be using green to show an easement. I suspect it’s use is in a deed related to the title but can’t be sure without any specific details. 

If the OP wants to DM or share the title number I’m happy to take a look and do my best to explain what’s registered to make it easier for others to comment further 

Apologies. The green is only shown in the original title deed when the house was built along with the red lines as per my diagram.
The newer title plans only show the red lines and 'T'.
The title register mentions the red lines as follows.
 The freehold land shown edged  red on plan of the above (our property). Titled filed at registers as being (address our address):

I'm a bit confused, are you the gov agency land registry or a private firm related to MSE, please?

So as I said, you have not been quoting from the LR Title.

The deed which you quote - Does the LR Title refer to it at any point?

A historic Deed may or may not still have legal force or relevance.

And the green area on the Plan - can we now assume that this Plan also is not the LR Plan as you implied, but is part of a quite separate, historic, deed?

Thank you, yes, sorry for not being very clear but that is what I mean and you are rights.
The LR for our property states as per highlighted bits. Our LR title plan shows the red lines on as per my sketch but not the 'T' as that is on the original deeds.

The next door that joins our house which they moved into at least 40 yrs ago reads on the LR exactly the same as ours other than the dates they bought and of course their names otherwise it is exactly the same as our LR title and LR title plan. Next door's LR title does not mention anything else at all. but as I said, I'm assuming that just like our original title deed they may have rights of way mentioned in that. This is because as I said in our original title plan it mentions "maintaining" the green area for pedestrians or something like that.

The detached house next door is raised from our garden level by at least 2 feet and have side access of their own on the left and right sides as you look at the house from the front. Their LR mentions nothing about them having access/easement rights over anyone elses property.
Thank you

Land_Registry

justworriedabit said:

I'm a bit confused, are you the gov agency land registry or a private firm related to MSE, please?

Representative for official government agency HM Land Registry - not a private firm and not related to MSE. 

MSE allow us to be forum members to assist where we can. They halos set up a separate Land Registry questions thread as well but as with all forums anyone can get stuck in and try to help by sharing their views/understanding. 

So we are no different to any other forum users other than we stick to what we know professionally as part of government and try not to add personal views as a result. 

It seems to work for most forum users 

justworriedabit

Thank you LR, appreciated.
I think with the help of everyone here, we have worked out that the house on the left has access rights even though it does not show in their LR title. We will stick with that if/when that property is sold and then then speak with the owners/representative/s before they sell it. This will one way or another get them to confirm if they have rights or not.
Thank you all.