Is PCN a valid?

J111Y

My mother and I have been fighting a PCN issued by NCP for over two years. My mother has never received a NTK for this PCN but has received other correspondence, the first being two months after the date of the PCN. Is this PCN still enforceable? My mother was taken to the small claims court in 2019 and as we were both in the car on the evening in question, we both submitted statements to the court explaining what had occurred. The case was dropped by B W legal at that point and NCP immediately started proceedings against me in March 2020 and are now threatening to take me to court for the same PCN. Can they do this? It will make difference to our defence as we were both in the car. I was driving because I was dropping my mother off and then I returned later the same evening to pick her up again. The PCN states our car was parked for 3 hours without payment which is not true. Any suggestions how to make this go away as it is making my mother ill with worry? 

D_P_Dance

They can take you to court but, imo, they will struggle .This is called double dipping .and is well known to judges, read some of these. and complain to your MP.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5550336/double-dip-parking-list-of-cases

Redx

yes they can issue a court claim against the driver for that PCN, the previous case was against the keeper, your mother

2 short visits ie double dipping, but it all depends on grace periods and signage etc

only a judge can decide the outcome, in court , unless it passes the 6 year limit (deadline)

Coupon-mad

So the threats are coming to you now, so why is Mum so worried?  Of course it isn't valid but they will still sue you unless you stop them now.  

It was 2 visits so that will be your defence and you will win in court, but that's tiresome and a waste of your time and is causing your family immense distress.  Say so!  Respond robustly to BW Legal telling them about your distress and the following facts, again:

While the previous court case in 2019 against your elderly mother, the registered keeper (claim number xxxxx which was discontinued)  revealed that you were the driver, it also revealed as a matter of undisputed fact that you were visiting twice (explain the facts again and explain your Mum's needs if you were collecting a disabled person - no need for a Blue Badge - anyone with protected characteristics is 'disabled' if they meet the definition and needed dropping off and picking up). 

State as fact that the car was not there for over 3 hours and there was no overstay, this was a case of the usual well-known ANPR flaw of the first in, last out ANPR images being defaulted to by a system that fails to store the middle out/in images.  This is so well known even the BPA (NCP's Trade Body) warn their members not to enforce PCNs in these cases:

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/ANPR
''As with all new technology, there are issues associated with its use:

a)    Repeat users of a car park inside a 24 hour period sometimes find that their first entry is paired with their last exit, resulting in an ‘overstay’. Operators are becoming aware of this and should now be checking all ANPR transactions to ensure that this does not occur.''

J111Y

Thanks for all the info . I’ll give your suggestions a try. What about no NTK in first place ? It was sent in December 2018 so I guess it is sitting in a post bag of Christmas cards somewhere. I thought this had to be delivered within 28 days of the offence or the PCN isn’t valid? 

KeithP

J111Y said:

What about no NTK in first place ? It was sent in December 2018 so I guess it is sitting in a post bag of Christmas cards somewhere. I thought this had to be delivered within 28 days of the offence or the PCN isn’t valid? 

What's the relevance of a Notice to Keeper if they already know who the driver is?

Where did you get that 28 days from?

Nothing makes a PCN invalid.

Coupon-mad

Yes, a Notice to Keeper doesn't matter because you are not the keeper.

J111Y

They only found out who was driving when my mother and I submitted statements fo the court for the case they were bringing against my mother. My mother had not provided any driver details before that point because she did not receive the PCN and as we were both in the car, we thought it was irrelevant who was driving. I did not want to get involved unless I had to as I have a very busy job and have got better things to do with my time. I have always felt that B W Legal has acted in an underhand way to obtain my details and I don’t understand why they couldn’t let their first claim run its course in 2019 as all this could have been settled a year ago. I think they believe that they can get what they want the longer they keep the PCN going. Interestingly , I have received an email from someone in NCP today, after making a complaint to the CEO, offering to withdraw the case from B W Legal and reduce their claim from £160 to £100 as a gesture of goodwill. I am not sure what part of “we did not leave the car in the car park” :they do not understand . 

Coupon-mad

 I am not sure what part of “we did not leave the car in the car park” :they do not understand . 

Quite.  This one will be discontinued as well if it gets as far as a defended claim.

But you can head it off at the pass by being a thorn in NCP and BW Legal's side and maybe threatening a counterclaim for harassment.  They don't seem to like that and the tactic has been used more than once.  You have grounds.

nosferatu1001

Do as above
They should never have obtained your mothers personal details, because the vehicle was not there 3 hours!
As such all processing of your mothers data, and now yours, is unlawful
This means you have easy grounds for a counterclaim for harassment, and your mother could claim for breach of DPA if you like.