Paid less than owed?

YorkshireHardware

Bit of a funny one this... Not sure if this is the right place. Apologies if not. 

I moved job in October. From one company to a rival set up by people who had worked at the first company. 3 of my friends had already moved so we didn't really discuss money. Just that it would be similar and I would get a car. I was paid around 16-20k Inc commison based on money in buy I never actually got a wage slip. For October November or December. 

The first Friday back after Christmas and new year I got a call saying it wasn't working out and they were gonna put me on furlough for as long as they could and encouraged me to find another job. He came and got the car on the Sunday 10th Jan. 


The last week in January  I got paid about 650 quid take home. Which was less than I expected but wasn't a disaster.

I asked about wage slips and something through the post to state what was happening and was told it would be soon. Nothing came. I got paid 400 on the last Friday of Feb. Even less than I was expecting. I asked again what was happening by text to the company owner and he assured me something would be sent in the post. Last week I got my December January and February wage. But also my p45. These state my wages and tax deductions. These correspond to what I was paid but seem low.

I was never actually given a contract or told what I would be earning. It was naively on a trust basis considering I had worked with the owner before and been "poached". What is my next step with regards claiming for unpaid money? Is it possible? I spoke to acas but they weren't very much help to be honest. 

Many Thanks 
James. 

Savvy_Sue

Well, you need ALL your payslips before you can do anything, because atm you've got no evidence of what you were paid and on what basis in October and November to compare with what you've been paid since. 

If a lot of October and November was commission, then getting a much lower payment when you're not working is to be expected. 

Reminding them that they are required to issue one might be a good first step? https://www.gov.uk/payslips

[Deleted User]

YorkshireHardware said:

Bit of a funny one this... Not sure if this is the right place. Apologies if not. 

I moved job in October. From one company to a rival set up by people who had worked at the first company. 3 of my friends had already moved so we didn't really discuss money. Just that it would be similar and I would get a car. I was paid around 16-20k Inc commison based on money in buy I never actually got a wage slip. For October November or December. 

The first Friday back after Christmas and new year I got a call saying it wasn't working out and they were gonna put me on furlough for as long as they could and encouraged me to find another job. He came and got the car on the Sunday 10th Jan. 


The last week in January  I spoke to acas but they weren't very much help to be honest. 

Many Thanks 
James. 

Thanks for this honest evaluation, sadly I didn't find HMRC of recent so bothered either to be frank. I only recall a couple of years ago when a company tried not paying to be given the advice for a template letter to be sent off which read quite strict and in the wrong hands totally misinterpreted, so they really blown up over it so puts me off them completely. In more recent times, I've tried the opposite in very, very nice approach, still no action, not understanding why a company would want to declare wages not paid and facilite incorrect entries thanks to an 'accountant error'. I don't know of any self-respecting company who wants to claim they are paying and leaving themselves wide open to incorrect reference date of employment/payroll disputes. Proper Carle Blanche to go round with a taxation print off claiming to work for a company what with a 3 month difference! I don't even know how I worked for another company without this coming to light sooner how on earth wasn't two employers questioned, by heck, it must just be the diligence of companies today. No wonder there is no proper advisory services in this country.

Marcon

YorkshireHardware said:

Bit of a funny one this... Not sure if this is the right place. Apologies if not. 

I moved job in October. From one company to a rival set up by people who had worked at the first company. 3 of my friends had already moved so we didn't really discuss money. Just that it would be similar and I would get a car. I was paid around 16-20k Inc commison based on money in buy I never actually got a wage slip. For October November or December. 

The first Friday back after Christmas and new year I got a call saying it wasn't working out and they were gonna put me on furlough for as long as they could and encouraged me to find another job. He came and got the car on the Sunday 10th Jan. 


The last week in January  I got paid about 650 quid take home. Which was less than I expected but wasn't a disaster.

I asked about wage slips and something through the post to state what was happening and was told it would be soon. Nothing came. I got paid 400 on the last Friday of Feb. Even less than I was expecting. I asked again what was happening by text to the company owner and he assured me something would be sent in the post. Last week I got my December January and February wage. But also my p45. These state my wages and tax deductions. These correspond to what I was paid but seem low.

I was never actually given a contract or told what I would be earning. It was naively on a trust basis considering I had worked with the owner before and been "poached". What is my next step with regards claiming for unpaid money? Is it possible? I spoke to acas but they weren't very much help to be honest. 

Many Thanks 
James. 

Not sure what you expected from ACAS apart from confirmation that you were entitled to payslips.

You can't claim for unpaid money unless you can demonstrate that it was contractually due - and given that your relaxed approach extended to not even finding out what you'd be paid, that sounds like a non-starter. Quite what you say to a potential new employer when they ask what you were earning in your last job is going to be your next interesting issue!

Good luck in the job hunt. Hope the next one is more successful - and better documented.

GrumpyDil

Have you tried creating a an account with HMRC and seeing what exactly that shows?

I can't remember off hand how much detail is there but it should at least show monthly gross and tax/NI deductions.

As an aside the company should have provided you with a statement of particulars of employment. I'd try asking for that, although not sure whether your energy would be best placed in looking for a new job. 

moneysavinghero

What sum would you be looking to reclaim. As you did not agree what you would be paid you probably cannot answer this. As long as they have paid you at least minimum wage there is not a lot you can do.

YorkshireHardware

My issue is they haven't appeared to pay me minimum wage. Regardless of anything else. A take home furloughed 80% wage for a full time employee should be more than £400 take home for the month surely? I can post the contents of the wage slips if anyone can make sense of them? 

I will ask for my October and November pay slips. And then I at least have the full set.

Thnaks for all replies. 

TELLIT01

As you don't seem to have anything stating how many hours per week you were to work, I don't understand how you can prove that you were paid less than minimum wage.  With the apparent lack of evidence to the contrary the employer could claim you were employed on a casual basis, as and when required. How would you disprove that.  I have never heard of anybody taking a job without at least knowing the hourly rate or salary and the working hours.

YorkshireHardware

The rough base salary and hours were agreed face to face when I came in. Its a heavily commison led wage. I never had a contract. Based on past wage slips would determine furloughed wage. This is less than I think it should be. 

YorkshireHardware

I was given a company car. Which will be reflected in my tax code. A good indication that I wasn't a casual employee. 

YorkshireHardware

As advised I have obtained my wage slips for October and December. These establish a base salary of 12,000 plus car as they. This doesn't correspond with my furlough wage slip for February and March. So seems to confirm I have been under paid. Also my tax has increased despite my base wage going down. What would be my next step? 

Many Thanks again for all help..