British gas bill in name of deceased. Advised other tenants must pay.

eskimo26

Mickey666 said:

Sounds to me as if the wife should now open a new account with BG as she must now be responsible for the energy supply - assuming she doesn't want it cut off.

The deceased's estate must surely remain responsible for all the bills BEFORE the supply is transferred into her name adn this would be paid by the estate inthe normal way.  The 'normal way' includes not paying if the estate really is insolvent.

As for whether the wife should pay her husband's bill if his estate has no money, she may have a moral responsibility but I'm less sure about a legal one.  Presumably that will be discovered if BG take her to court for non-payment (assuming husband's estate is insolvent).  Is the amount owed at the date of husband's death significant enough that BG would bother with legal action?

I believe it's just over £1000 in arrears for dual fuel but their are other debts with other companies. 

My Uncle was severely disabled (advanced COPD, diabetes and eventually pneumonia and Covid-19).

My niece who is early twenties is most likely to be dealing with any admin. moving forward and she is grieving, pretty frightened and angry at the prospect. This includes the care decisions for her profoundly disabled sister who she still has to break the news too (regarding their father's death). She's arranging this with her sister's home so she can tell her face to face and this will happen soon.  

My niece is also upset at the way the hospital handled decisions which is why the body is with the coroner. 

Anyway, the point being i'd like to give my niece as clear of a playing field as I can so she's not punished for the situation her parent's created.

eskimo26

xylophone said:

Re the marital home -  is this a rented property or did your uncle own it?
If both owned it, tenants-in-common or joint tenants?

Hi xylophone, 
the property is rented and they will likely move out soon as the landlady insists they have to pay for fixing everything and the place is falling apart.

Keep_pedalling

eskimo26 said:

Mickey666 said:

Sounds to me as if the wife should now open a new account with BG as she must now be responsible for the energy supply - assuming she doesn't want it cut off.

The deceased's estate must surely remain responsible for all the bills BEFORE the supply is transferred into her name adn this would be paid by the estate inthe normal way.  The 'normal way' includes not paying if the estate really is insolvent.

As for whether the wife should pay her husband's bill if his estate has no money, she may have a moral responsibility but I'm less sure about a legal one.  Presumably that will be discovered if BG take her to court for non-payment (assuming husband's estate is insolvent).  Is the amount owed at the date of husband's death significant enough that BG would bother with legal action?

I believe it's just over £1000 in arrears for dual fuel but their are other debts with other companies. 

My Uncle was severely disabled (advanced COPD, diabetes and eventually pneumonia and Covid-19).

My niece who is early twenties is most likely to be dealing with any admin. moving forward and she is grieving, pretty frightened and angry at the prospect. This includes the care decisions for her profoundly disabled sister who she still has to break the news too (regarding their father's death). She's arranging this with her sister's home so she can tell her face to face and this will happen soon.  

My niece is also upset at the way the hospital handled decisions which is why the body is with the coroner. 

Anyway, the point being i'd like to give my niece as clear of a playing field as I can so she's not punished for the situation her parent's created.

Your niece should not administer the estate if it insolvent. She should write to his creditors telling them that the estate is insolvent and that no one is administering it. 

Electricity and gas is more complicated, and I would certainly ring dept line for advice. She is not legally responsible for the arrears, and paying it would not be treating the other creditors fairly, but she has the issue of ongoing supply which could be made expensive for her if they did something like install a pre pay meter.   

xylophone

Did your uncle make a will? If so, is it his daughter/you/ another who is named executor?

You refer to your Uncle's daughter as your niece - did you mean your cousin?

Did you miss naedanger's post giving this link? 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/debts-after-death-ew/?

With regard to your proposed letter, there's a typo (should be "apprised").

I'm thinking to email the following:
Dear Bereavement Team,
As discussed previously through your call centre please be advised that my Uncle passed away on xxxx. We will keep you appraised of the situation once resolution of the estate begins.  

 You indicate  a possible (probable?) insolvency - if so, see Keep Pedalling's post above.

Frogletina

eskimo26 said:

Hello all, 
I've been dealing with preparing for probate since my Uncle passed away. We can't proceed until we have a death certificate which is delayed as the case has gone to a coroner. 

Is there no interim death certificate from the Coroner? Probate can be obtained using this.

eskimo26

Frogletina said:

eskimo26 said:

Hello all, 
I've been dealing with preparing for probate since my Uncle passed away. We can't proceed until we have a death certificate which is delayed as the case has gone to a coroner. 

Is there no interim death certificate from the Coroner? Probate can be obtained using this.

Keep_pedalling said:

eskimo26 said:

Mickey666 said:

Sounds to me as if the wife should now open a new account with BG as she must now be responsible for the energy supply - assuming she doesn't want it cut off.

The deceased's estate must surely remain responsible for all the bills BEFORE the supply is transferred into her name adn this would be paid by the estate inthe normal way.  The 'normal way' includes not paying if the estate really is insolvent.

As for whether the wife should pay her husband's bill if his estate has no money, she may have a moral responsibility but I'm less sure about a legal one.  Presumably that will be discovered if BG take her to court for non-payment (assuming husband's estate is insolvent).  Is the amount owed at the date of husband's death significant enough that BG would bother with legal action?

I believe it's just over £1000 in arrears for dual fuel but their are other debts with other companies. 

My Uncle was severely disabled (advanced COPD, diabetes and eventually pneumonia and Covid-19).

My niece who is early twenties is most likely to be dealing with any admin. moving forward and she is grieving, pretty frightened and angry at the prospect. This includes the care decisions for her profoundly disabled sister who she still has to break the news too (regarding their father's death). She's arranging this with her sister's home so she can tell her face to face and this will happen soon.  

My niece is also upset at the way the hospital handled decisions which is why the body is with the coroner. 

Anyway, the point being i'd like to give my niece as clear of a playing field as I can so she's not punished for the situation her parent's created.

Your niece should not administer the estate if it insolvent. She should write to his creditors telling them that the estate is insolvent and that no one is administering it. 

Electricity and gas is more complicated, and I would certainly ring dept line for advice. She is not legally responsible for the arrears, and paying it would not be treating the other creditors fairly, but she has the issue of ongoing supply which could be made expensive for her if they did something like install a pre pay meter.   

xylophone said:

Did your uncle make a will? If so, is it his daughter/you/ another who is named executor?

You refer to your Uncle's daughter as your niece - did you mean your cousin?

Did you miss naedanger's post giving this link? 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/debts-after-death-ew/?

With regard to your proposed letter, there's a typo (should be "apprised").

I'm thinking to email the following:
Dear Bereavement Team,
As discussed previously through your call centre please be advised that my Uncle passed away on xxxx. We will keep you appraised of the situation once resolution of the estate begins.  

 You indicate  a possible (probable?) insolvency - if so, see Keep Pedalling's post above.

ok things are becoming a little clearer now. 
To answer a few questions-
My uncle did NOT make a will. One of many poor decisions related to his finances and personal affairs. 

Cousin is correct, she is my mother's niece. I often say niece because the age gap between us is huge. 

We have asked the coroner for an interim death certificate so many times because I read about it on .gov. We were told it wasn't the right circumstance which I found strange considering the source of the information. Something to bear in mind is that the coroner's are absolutely swamped atm. 

Thank you for the contact details of debt line and information on what to do in cases of insolvency. 

In terms of the supply of utilities, they should be moving out of that rented property very shortly and British Gas assured us it won't be cut off until everything is resolved and in the interim they are keeping up to date with ongoing utility costs. My impression is they can open an account in their name, if not with British gas then another supplier?   
Also the property has an issue in which their is no way to turn off the heating and the landlord refuses to deal with it. 

I was just very surprised that British gas advised me that my uncle's wife would be liable for arrears on an account that is only in his name. My impression has always been that all debts would be settled by the estate during probate and if their weren't enough funds then they couldn't be paid. 


  

Gavin83

Based on the more up to date information your uncles wife wouldn't be liable for the arrears. Utility companies do often peddle this line but ultimately there's no way they can make her pay, it isn't her debt. That's the legal position anyway, the moral side is a different matter. She will however likely be liable for anything accrued since the date of death, although I don't think you're disputing this anyway.

One thing I wish to question. You mention you're unable to turn off the heating in the property, what do you mean by this? If you're saying it's impossible to turn off the gas supply then that's illegal and she needs to report this. It's a huge red flag from a safety perspective.

mobileron

Ensure photos of all meters are taken on move out day.There will be a mains socket next to boiler just switch that off.

tooldle

Why are you needing probate? Unless there is a large chunk of money sat in an account somewhere, probate is not needed. Probate basically allows the executor to move funds from wherever the deceased had them, into one account for distribution (bills and beneficiaries). When i dealt with my fathers estate, the threshold for probate being required was reasonably high i.e. greater than 10K in any account. I believe it is institution specific. Are there savings accounts in only the deceased name?
Edited to add, i paid all the outstanding bills in my father name, with the funds available in their joint account at the time.  Never for a moment did i think that mum was not in anyway responsible.