We'd like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum... Read More »
Universal Credit Questions
KCJA1989
Posts: 94 Forumite
Hi all,
A little background. My family consists of myself, my wife and our three children (ages 8, 5 and 1). I work in retail. I am contracted 15 hours per week, though often work more. We receive legacy benefits (Housing Benefit and Child Tax Credit). Up until recently, I have always worked as many hours as possible, despite not really seeing any financial gain after around 25 hours - I have always enjoyed my job and try to work as much as possible, it's not all about money! However, over the last few months, because I'd been working consistently 35+ hours, we were getting to the point of pushing past the threshold for claiming any Housing Benefit and would be then made to claim Universal Credit (this happened once previously just over a year ago, during which time I had to fight to stay on the legacy benefits, the advice and support given to me during that difficult time was overwhelming, I can't thank certain members of the forum enough for that - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6106011/made-to-claim-universal-credit-hb-stopped/p1). Because of this, I have requested to work fewer hours - unfortunately, I do miss working more, a bit fed up - to make sure I am not in any threat of going over the threshold that stops the Housing Benefit claim.
The question is whether or not to now switch to Universal Credit. I am unsure on the AET and CET rates for 2021/22. However, based on this years rates and my hourly rate (NMW), I believe the "light touch" between the AET and CET to be my working of hours between 16 (15.7, to be precise) and 35 per week. The problem being that I am contracted to, annoyingly, 15 (this is something I have pondered previously too, again, with fantastic support all round - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6105980/uc-aet/p1). The last few months has been chaotic at work, with the pandemic as well as wholesale changes in management and staff, so nigh on unlimited hours have been available - I don't believe this will be the case in the coming months, hence my hesitancy. I don't want to commit to Universal Credit to be then put down to my contracted 15 hours and be under the AET, if you follow. We have been led to believe that the contracts will be changing to 16 in the future, which would be hugely beneficial, but there has been no confirmation of this.
In my uncertainty, I have been looking for other jobs, but I don't really see the point in leaving my job for another part time position (of which a lot are temporary, I do have a permanent contract) - and permanent full time jobs are scarce, especially in the current climate. At the end of the day, I want to work more. With Universal Credit, I could work in my current position an unlimited number of hours, but my only guarantee is 15 hours which, as I am led to believe, would put me under AET and be made to look for another job - I'm not completely against this as I have mentioned, but I wouldn't want to be forced into a job I wasn't comfortable with, just because it ticks the box.
A few questions:
1. If I had a 16 or 20 hour contract, for example, in my current position, would I be "left alone" on the light touch regime or would I still be expected to look for a "full time job" i.e. 35 hours contracted? I suppose what I'm trying to ask is "how light touch is light touch" - would I be left alone as long as I was between the AET and CET?
2. Does anybody know what the AET and CET is for 2021/22?
3. In terms of "triggers" to switch from legacy benefits to Universal Credit - would being forced to claim Statutory Sick Pay (e.g. self isolating due to a covid case in the household) act as a trigger to close a Housing Benefit claim? If I was to leave my position for another job, would that do the same? Also, if the hypothetical new contracts were to be offered at work, would that be a trigger or be classed as a "change of circumstance"?
4. Sanctions. This is the thing that terrifies me, I've heard a lot of horror stories. What I do like about the "old" system, i.e. legacy benefits, is that the money comes straight to you and they don't seem to be "regulated", for want of a better word. Universal Credit seems to be more that you have to do certain things at a certain time, or else, e.g. claimant commitment etc. Is this the case? How likely are they to sanction you? Is it fair and just or are there sanctions for genuine mistakes for example, it really does worry me. Are the amounts large - I wouldn't want my family to suffer hardship because I did the wrong thing.
5. Would I be made, or forced, to leave my job? Now, as I have said previously, although I do not want to leave my job, if something permanent, full time, realistic and viable were to come up, and I chose to go for it - I wouldn't be averse to that at all. I don't like the idea of there is a full time job available, that is not suited to me and I would hate to do, but I now have to apply for it because it's full time and if I don't I will be punished or be sanctioned etc. I've worked hard in my current position for years now, I would rather not leave and throw away all that hard work and those relationships through no decision of my own.
6. I appreciate this is hypothetical again, but, if I were to attain a full time position somewhere in the future (35 hours contracted, permanent) and didn't want to stay, would I be able to leave for a part time contract but work more hours (i.e. 16 hours contracted but usually work much more, similar to what I have done previously), or would I be punished for leaving guaranteed full time work?
7. When receiving Universal Credit and being told to look for work, are you just expected to look for any full time job? For example, would I be expected to apply for a job in a sector I would never want to work in or be expected to be available to work any hour of any day? Is there a choice or options on which criteria?
At the end of the day, ideally I would be given a 35 hour contract in my current position - that is not going to happen. What I would settle for is a bigger contract, e.g. 16 or 20 hours, and be able to work as much as they want me to - that's what I did for years on Housing Benefit, the weeks I worked too much I didn't receive any benefit, the other weeks I did, didn't bother me because I wanted to work, despite the lack of financial gain, now they would just close the claim, unfortunately. The problem I have, as previously stated, I don't feel comfortable making that leap to Universal Credit while I am only contracted 15 hours, feel like I'm in limbo. I've always worked as much as possible, and I miss that, but I need to do what's right for my family.
Sorry for the huge rambling post. Just feel really down and lost with the whole situation. Thanks so much.
A little background. My family consists of myself, my wife and our three children (ages 8, 5 and 1). I work in retail. I am contracted 15 hours per week, though often work more. We receive legacy benefits (Housing Benefit and Child Tax Credit). Up until recently, I have always worked as many hours as possible, despite not really seeing any financial gain after around 25 hours - I have always enjoyed my job and try to work as much as possible, it's not all about money! However, over the last few months, because I'd been working consistently 35+ hours, we were getting to the point of pushing past the threshold for claiming any Housing Benefit and would be then made to claim Universal Credit (this happened once previously just over a year ago, during which time I had to fight to stay on the legacy benefits, the advice and support given to me during that difficult time was overwhelming, I can't thank certain members of the forum enough for that - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6106011/made-to-claim-universal-credit-hb-stopped/p1). Because of this, I have requested to work fewer hours - unfortunately, I do miss working more, a bit fed up - to make sure I am not in any threat of going over the threshold that stops the Housing Benefit claim.
The question is whether or not to now switch to Universal Credit. I am unsure on the AET and CET rates for 2021/22. However, based on this years rates and my hourly rate (NMW), I believe the "light touch" between the AET and CET to be my working of hours between 16 (15.7, to be precise) and 35 per week. The problem being that I am contracted to, annoyingly, 15 (this is something I have pondered previously too, again, with fantastic support all round - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6105980/uc-aet/p1). The last few months has been chaotic at work, with the pandemic as well as wholesale changes in management and staff, so nigh on unlimited hours have been available - I don't believe this will be the case in the coming months, hence my hesitancy. I don't want to commit to Universal Credit to be then put down to my contracted 15 hours and be under the AET, if you follow. We have been led to believe that the contracts will be changing to 16 in the future, which would be hugely beneficial, but there has been no confirmation of this.
In my uncertainty, I have been looking for other jobs, but I don't really see the point in leaving my job for another part time position (of which a lot are temporary, I do have a permanent contract) - and permanent full time jobs are scarce, especially in the current climate. At the end of the day, I want to work more. With Universal Credit, I could work in my current position an unlimited number of hours, but my only guarantee is 15 hours which, as I am led to believe, would put me under AET and be made to look for another job - I'm not completely against this as I have mentioned, but I wouldn't want to be forced into a job I wasn't comfortable with, just because it ticks the box.
A few questions:
1. If I had a 16 or 20 hour contract, for example, in my current position, would I be "left alone" on the light touch regime or would I still be expected to look for a "full time job" i.e. 35 hours contracted? I suppose what I'm trying to ask is "how light touch is light touch" - would I be left alone as long as I was between the AET and CET?
2. Does anybody know what the AET and CET is for 2021/22?
3. In terms of "triggers" to switch from legacy benefits to Universal Credit - would being forced to claim Statutory Sick Pay (e.g. self isolating due to a covid case in the household) act as a trigger to close a Housing Benefit claim? If I was to leave my position for another job, would that do the same? Also, if the hypothetical new contracts were to be offered at work, would that be a trigger or be classed as a "change of circumstance"?
4. Sanctions. This is the thing that terrifies me, I've heard a lot of horror stories. What I do like about the "old" system, i.e. legacy benefits, is that the money comes straight to you and they don't seem to be "regulated", for want of a better word. Universal Credit seems to be more that you have to do certain things at a certain time, or else, e.g. claimant commitment etc. Is this the case? How likely are they to sanction you? Is it fair and just or are there sanctions for genuine mistakes for example, it really does worry me. Are the amounts large - I wouldn't want my family to suffer hardship because I did the wrong thing.
5. Would I be made, or forced, to leave my job? Now, as I have said previously, although I do not want to leave my job, if something permanent, full time, realistic and viable were to come up, and I chose to go for it - I wouldn't be averse to that at all. I don't like the idea of there is a full time job available, that is not suited to me and I would hate to do, but I now have to apply for it because it's full time and if I don't I will be punished or be sanctioned etc. I've worked hard in my current position for years now, I would rather not leave and throw away all that hard work and those relationships through no decision of my own.
6. I appreciate this is hypothetical again, but, if I were to attain a full time position somewhere in the future (35 hours contracted, permanent) and didn't want to stay, would I be able to leave for a part time contract but work more hours (i.e. 16 hours contracted but usually work much more, similar to what I have done previously), or would I be punished for leaving guaranteed full time work?
7. When receiving Universal Credit and being told to look for work, are you just expected to look for any full time job? For example, would I be expected to apply for a job in a sector I would never want to work in or be expected to be available to work any hour of any day? Is there a choice or options on which criteria?
At the end of the day, ideally I would be given a 35 hour contract in my current position - that is not going to happen. What I would settle for is a bigger contract, e.g. 16 or 20 hours, and be able to work as much as they want me to - that's what I did for years on Housing Benefit, the weeks I worked too much I didn't receive any benefit, the other weeks I did, didn't bother me because I wanted to work, despite the lack of financial gain, now they would just close the claim, unfortunately. The problem I have, as previously stated, I don't feel comfortable making that leap to Universal Credit while I am only contracted 15 hours, feel like I'm in limbo. I've always worked as much as possible, and I miss that, but I need to do what's right for my family.
Sorry for the huge rambling post. Just feel really down and lost with the whole situation. Thanks so much.
0
Comments
-
1) AET is I believe £549 for a couple claim. This may increase from April. So above that as net pay would get you into light touch-in work. Earning £604 net currently would enable benefit cap exemption.If you earned below AET, so were in intensive work search, yes you might be required to attend Job Centre appointments (being done by phone currently) and be asked to look for additional work, But as you are working, then given the number not working at all, I would not expect you to be a priority for appointments.Yes earning at least AET therefore being in light touch would mean that you would not have regular appointments.2) Don't know4) When you agree a claimant commitment, you would be aware of what you had agreed. If for example you agreed to attend appointments and failed to attend saying you were not bothered or did not bother to make contact, then yes a sanction could be applied. There are other reasons for sanctions and more details can be found on the following website https://www.understandinguniversalcredit.gov.uk/already-claimed/sanctions/5) There would be no issue with current job, if it was earning you at least the AET each month. Not sure why you think they would start telling what job you should have. If say for example, you only worked 10 hours per week ( 5 hours on Mondays & Tuesday) earning below the AET, you could well be asked to search for additional work as there are 5 other days you had available. They goal is to earn at least CET representing 35 hours at National Minimum wage.6) If you stopped working for no good reason, then yes this could lead to a sanction. It says sanction could apply if leave work or reduce your hours of work, whether voluntarily or due to ‘misconduct’ (while claiming Universal Credit or just before your claim). So what you would have to do is provide reasons for giving up one job and then accepting another at a much lower earnings level.7) You would have a commitment discussion with a Work Coach about the job sector you wanted to work in. If there were no jobs available in your prefered sector, then of course they would ask you to look at how your skills could be transferable to other sectors. You could not insist on a certain specifc job, unless you had a very specific skill set and then they would only allow 3 months to find a job matching your requirements. If the only jobs available where you lived were warehouse and supermarkets, then if you were out of work, then you would be expected to apply. Unless there were issues that made the work unsuitable, but you would need to discuss what these issues were with your Work Coach.At the moment, given the world we are current living in, I think most people would be happy to be in employment and earning enough to stay afloat financially.
The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.0 -
2) AET is linked to income based JSA rates and so will increase in April. AET is the same for all claimants.
From April I think AET for a single claimant will be (£4.70 + £5) x 52 / 12 = £345.36/month and for a couple (£117.4 + £10) x 52/12 = £552.06
CET is not fixed because it is linked to the claimant's work search requirements in their Claimant Commitment.
3) Claiming SSP or leaving your job would not end your HB claim and therefore there would be no need to claim UC. Nor would a change of contract.Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.0 -
Thanks for the replies.
huckster
1. A 16-hour contract at NMW would be over £549 AET, a 15-hour wouldn't, that's why I'm hesitant. Obviously, I would hopefully be working much more than contract, but that's no guarantee. I don't have the best knowledge of the benefit cap. It's my understanding, from the basic calculations I've done, that our benefits would be under the cap (not currently close on legacy benefits, even on Universal Credit we would be well under the £384.62 threshold) - unless I'm getting confused. I have no problem with additional work, I long for it. When I first took this job I used to work another job around it, unfortunately our jobs are now "fully flexible" making this impossible. If I am "light touch" and have no regular appointments, what does this consist of?
4. I have no problem sticking to what has been agreed in a commitment, my issue was in regards to genuine mistakes or problems. For example, being sanctioned for missing calls or not updating information in time, or being requested for a meeting while at work etc. These are my concerns - not that I just "couldn't be bothered".
5. My issue was whether or not I would be pushed into another job with more contracted hours. My job is, unfortunately, to be flexible to work 15 hours over 7 days, no set days or times. I would love to get another job to work around, like I used to. I would snap their hands off for a 35-hour contract.
6. I have never and would never stop working "for no good reason". My example is if I were to leave my current job for a full time 35-hour contracted job, only to find that I hated that job, would I then be able to leave said job for any other position i.e. a 16-hour contract somewhere with promise of overtime or would I have to stay until there was another 35-hour contracted position somewhere. As I've said, this is purely hypothetical, I was just curious.
7. I don't particularly have a preferred sector - I have worked in numerous - my fear would be being made to apply for a position somewhere I really didn't want to work just because it's what I've been instructed I have to do.
I am happy in my work. I want to work more, that's why I'm here. I understand I have a job and a lot of people don't at the moment, for that I am entirely grateful. I came for advice.
calcotti
Thanks for all of your help in the past.
2. Those figures are along the same lines I was thinking, thanks for clarifying.
3. No problem, thanks a lot.
Thanks again for the replies, any help is much appreciated.0 -
Re: number 6, it doesn't sound like you would willingly leave your current job so while it is hypothetical, is there any point worrying about it?
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/955781/admk2.pdf
Sanctions are not applied if a claimant can show 'good reason' for whatever the sanctionable action was. Paragraph K2151 onwards deals with employment; K2221 onwards would be of particular interest to you ("Circumstances that may show good reason where a claimant leaves paid work or loses pay voluntarily").
EDIT: Re-reading your previous post, the first part of the document is applicable to your concern number 4 as well.0 -
KCJA1989 said:Thanks for the replies.
huckster
1. A 16-hour contract at NMW would be over £549 AET, a 15-hour wouldn't, that's why I'm hesitant. Obviously, I would hopefully be working much more than contract, but that's no guarantee. I don't have the best knowledge of the benefit cap. It's my understanding, from the basic calculations I've done, that our benefits would be under the cap (not currently close on legacy benefits, even on Universal Credit we would be well under the £384.62 threshold) - unless I'm getting confused. I have no problem with additional work, I long for it. When I first took this job I used to work another job around it, unfortunately our jobs are now "fully flexible" making this impossible. If I am "light touch" and have no regular appointments, what does this consist of?There are two AET rates - single person and couple rate.The single rate of approx £345 applies to you. If you earn over this amount you will be in Light Touch. Light Touch means no appointments and no work related requirements - they will leave you alone.The couple rate applies to the other member of the couple (or both members if household income is split). So if both of you (combined) earn over £549, you will both be left alone.On a wider note, I think you are over thinking a lot of this. As a work coach, I would be absolutely delighted to have you on my caseload - you already have a job! My attention is mostly going to be directed at those who don't have a job / don't want a job. No one is going to be asking you to quit your job to take a full time job. You are already doing everything anyone could reasonably ask of you and as long as your earnings remain above the single (lower) AET rate, you will stay in light touch and will not be subjected to work related requirements nor will you be asked to attend regular appointments.Even if for some reason, one month you didn't get as many hours and your earnings dropped you back below the AET, by the time they've booked you an appointment (1-2 weeks), and you've attended it, and said, hey I have a job (great), and next month my hours / earnings should be back up above the AET again and I'll be back in light touch again, I'd be thinking great, nothing for me to do here, carry on. Believe me, we see folks bouncing around either side of the AET all the time as that is the result of zero hours contracts and people having variable hours.1 -
Bookmarking this thread now because this is incredibly useful to know!NedS said:On a wider note, I think you are over thinking a lot of this. As a work coach, I would be absolutely delighted to have you on my caseload - you already have a job! My attention is mostly going to be directed at those who don't have a job / don't want a job. No one is going to be asking you to quit your job to take a full time job. You are already doing everything anyone could reasonably ask of you and as long as your earnings remain above the single (lower) AET rate, you will stay in light touch and will not be subjected to work related requirements nor will you be asked to attend regular appointments.Even if for some reason, one month you didn't get as many hours and your earnings dropped you back below the AET, by the time they've booked you an appointment (1-2 weeks), and you've attended it, and said, hey I have a job (great), and next month my hours / earnings should be back up above the AET again and I'll be back in light touch again, I'd be thinking great, nothing for me to do here, carry on. Believe me, we see folks bouncing around either side of the AET all the time as that is the result of zero hours contracts and people having variable hours.1 -
Thanks for the replies.
Spoonie_Turtle: There probably isn't too much point in worrying, I'm just trying to cover all of the bases before I make the decision - as I've been told, there is no going back once I've applied.
NedS: Thanks for all of your help in the past. My partner is currently the primary carer for our children, including our one year old daughter. I understand this to mean that she is not expected to look for work. Does this definitely mean that between us as a couple, the AET for earnings are at the rate for a "single person" as she is not expected to work? I didn't believe that to be the case, I thought my wage would be expected to reach the AET for the couple. If this is the case, it is less of a worry as I would always be way above the threshold on contracted hours - could this please be confirmed?
As I have stated previously, I probably am overthinking the situation, I just don't want to be placed in the worst case scenario of only having 15 contracted hours every week and that not being enough to reach the threshold.
Just a quick update: I have spoken to our interim manager and asked if it is possible to have my contract amended from 15 to 16 hours and it is currently in consideration. My argument is that if I have the guaranteed 16 hours, I would feel confident to apply for Universal Credit as I will always be over the AET and into the light touch (£8.91 * 16 * 4 = £570.24, AET for the period is currently £549, I believe) and therefore be free to work as many hours as they want me to. Thanks for all the help so far.
0 -
Are you paid weekly or monthly?Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.0
-
I'm paid weekly.
Update: My request for a contract amendment from 15 to 16 hours has been accepted and is now official. I have, in turn, agreed to work overtime now at their request. Any further advice or answers to previously asked questions is greatly appreciated - namely whether or not I would be viewed as a "single person" due to my family's current circumstances, and am I correct in thinking that as long as my absolute worst week is 16 hours at NMW, as I would be over the AET (couple rate), the light touch would be applied and I would be left alone as long as I was working?
Thanks a lot!0 -
Yes, as previously advised.KCJA1989 said:I'm paid weekly.
am I correct in thinking that as long as my absolute worst week is 16 hours at NMW, as I would be over the AET (couple rate), the light touch would be applied and I would be left alone as long as I was working?NedS said:The couple rate applies to the other member of the couple (or both members if household income is split). So if both of you (combined) earn over £549, you will both be left alone.
0
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 350K Banking & Borrowing
- 252.7K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 453.1K Spending & Discounts
- 243K Work, Benefits & Business
- 619.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 176.5K Life & Family
- 255.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards