Ryanair dispute

englishrob

I booked a flight for my family with Ryanair in June 2020 to travel from Bristol to Tenerife on 8th August 2020. The total cost was £333.03. At the time of booking, foreign travel was allowed, but on the 25th July, the Foreign Office advised against all non essential travel. It also meant that any travel insurance would be null and void If I decided to travel.

I contacted Ryanair immediately using their chat service and asked what my options were and was told by one of their agents that if I did not use the flight, I would lose the money.

There was no offer of a refund, voucher or change of flight.

If I had been offered a voucher for a later flight or a change of flight, I would have accepted, but the agent said "as long as the flight is operational we are not in the position to offer free flight move or refund" and "I am afraid there are no other solutions I could offer and that is not going to change in the course of this conversation" and "As I already stated, no other solution can be made regarding to those flights for now"

I contacted them on many more occasions and they repeated that they would not give me a refund as the flight would be operating, even though it was against Government advice to travel.

I contacted my bank and they instigated a dispute and refunded my money.

Ryanair sent me confirmation by email stating "We confirm that a refund has been processed back to the form of payment used to pay for your booking" on the 12/8 and I thought that was the end of the matter.

However on the 7th October 2020, Ryanair took the money from my account again.

I spoke to the bank and argued that Ryanair should not have been allowed to withdraw the funds again, but the bank (Barclays) said that the money was refunded to me when they started the dispute with Ryanair.

Ryanair argued that the flight operated and unfortunately Barclays relented in this dispute, even though the Government issued advice to not to travel and any insurance would be null and void if I had traveled.

As I was travelling with my wife and my daughter, it was a gamble I couldn't take.

I tried to recover the money through my travel insurance and they said that I was not covered (even though the policy was bought pre-covid) because I had bought the policy through Compare the Market. If I had bought the same policy direct with them, I would have been covered.

I have contacted Ryanair many times since and they still refuse to offer any sort of resolution by means of a refund or flight change, despite them having sent me an email stating they had refunded me.

They are now saying that I should have changed the flights, but unfortunately that option was not offered to me. If it had been, I'd have taken up the option in order not to lose my money or future holiday.

I have screenshot evidence of the conversation with the Ryanair agent saying to use the flight or lose it and offering no options, the email stating that they had refunded me and my bank statement showing the money being deducted from my account again.

Any advice would be a great help. TIA

eskbanker

There was no entitlement to a refund so that's why Ryanair disputed the chargeback claim and the provisional reimbursement was reversed, although it's unusual for a merchant to email you as if they'd voluntarily refunded when going through the chargeback process.

Anyway, that's all water under the bridge now and you're effectively left with the matter of whether you should have had the right to change flights - again it's not a legal entitlement as such in the circumstances but if you were told you couldn't and they're now telling you that you could, then they should accept the cost of their flawed advice, although you may need to take them to small claims to extract it from them.

I don't understand the point about not going direct to your insurance provider - either the terms of the policy cover cancellation due to adverse FCO advice or they don't, so what does your policy documentation actually say?

englishrob

eskbanker said:

There was no entitlement to a refund so that's why Ryanair disputed the chargeback claim and the provisional reimbursement was reversed, although it's unusual for a merchant to email you as if they'd voluntarily refunded when going through the chargeback process.

Anyway, that's all water under the bridge now and you're effectively left with the matter of whether you should have had the right to change flights - again it's not a legal entitlement as such in the circumstances but if you were told you couldn't and they're now telling you that you could, then they should accept the cost of their flawed advice, although you may need to take them to small claims to extract it from them.

I don't understand the point about not going direct to your insurance provider - either the terms of the policy cover cancellation due to adverse FCO advice or they don't, so what does your policy documentation actually say?

Thanks for your reply.
As the insurance was taken out pre-covid, it was a bit vague as to whether I'd have been covered. However, when I did contact them, they said that I should be covered and asked me to fill an online claim form in.
I had to call them again because there was a query on the form and the young guy on the phone was a bit smug and rude when he told me that in fact I would not be covered because I had bought the policy through Compare the Market and if I had bought direct through them, I would have been covered.
I argued that surely since covid had started during the policy, it should have been covered and I should have been notified if my policy would not cover it as it was such a major event.
He said no, but as it happens, I would not have got anything back anyway because of the excess payments.
I mentioned all this to Compare the Market and they just weren't interested.

As for Ryanair, I provided them with proof that the agent did not offer any alternatives and they don't reply now despite my emailing and Twitter messaging. They're just hoping I go away I guess?

bagand96

Agree that there was no entitlement to a refund, and that is why the chargeback failed (whilst Barclays refunded the money to you immediately, that didn't mean Ryanair couldn't dispute the chargeback, which they obviously did)

Ryanair flights can be moved online in the Manage Booking section of the website.  Generally there is a fee for this, and you have to pay the difference if the new flight is more expensive. Like many airlines, Ryanair did start waiving the change fee and allowing people to change free of charge.  I can't say for sure if this was an option last June as the policies have changed many times as the pandemic has progressed.   Did you look at the Ryanair FAQs at the time? They have had a Covid section on the website since the pandemic started.

It will come own to you arguing that their agent gave you incorrect information.  They're not an airline known for their service at the best of times so I wouldn't expect them to change their position.  Not sure how you'd go about forcing the issue, they're an Irish company so UK Small Claims Court isn't an option.

On the insurance, I presume that the issue with Compare The Market vs going direct is that the policy terms are different.  Some companies will sell exclusive comparison site policies that may have different cover levels to what they sell direct.  Did your policy cover you for pandemics or Government travel advice?  You should be able to check this in the documents.

smjxm09

I hope you will not be booking a flight with Ryanair again otherwise they have won.

englishrob

smjxm09 said:

I hope you will not be booking a flight with Ryanair again otherwise they have won.

Not a chance!

englishrob

bagand96 said:

Agree that there was no entitlement to a refund, and that is why the chargeback failed (whilst Barclays refunded the money to you immediately, that didn't mean Ryanair couldn't dispute the chargeback, which they obviously did)

Ryanair flights can be moved online in the Manage Booking section of the website.  Generally there is a fee for this, and you have to pay the difference if the new flight is more expensive. Like many airlines, Ryanair did start waiving the change fee and allowing people to change free of charge.  I can't say for sure if this was an option last June as the policies have changed many times as the pandemic has progressed.   Did you look at the Ryanair FAQs at the time? They have had a Covid section on the website since the pandemic started.

It will come own to you arguing that their agent gave you incorrect information.  They're not an airline known for their service at the best of times so I wouldn't expect them to change their position.  Not sure how you'd go about forcing the issue, they're an Irish company so UK Small Claims Court isn't an option.

On the insurance, I presume that the issue with Compare The Market vs going direct is that the policy terms are different.  Some companies will sell exclusive comparison site policies that may have different cover levels to what they sell direct.  Did your policy cover you for pandemics or Government travel advice?  You should be able to check this in the documents.

No mention of pandemic in the policy but it did cover for Government advice..."You cannot commence travel to your intended destination due to the (FCO) Foreign and Commonwealth Office advice for your destination/location changing to as a minimum ‘all but essential travel’ after the purchase of your policy or after the booking of any individual trip, whichever is the latter. This also applies to where such FCO advice changes are announced after you have commenced your trip/holiday"
As I had bought the policy pre covid and pre Government advice, I should have been covered. However, as I said previously, unfortunately my excess was more than the claim anyway.

Ryanair seem to be a law unto themselves and apart from pestering them, there doesn't appear to be a lot I can do.

bagand96

englishrob said:

bagand96 said:

Agree that there was no entitlement to a refund, and that is why the chargeback failed (whilst Barclays refunded the money to you immediately, that didn't mean Ryanair couldn't dispute the chargeback, which they obviously did)

Ryanair flights can be moved online in the Manage Booking section of the website.  Generally there is a fee for this, and you have to pay the difference if the new flight is more expensive. Like many airlines, Ryanair did start waiving the change fee and allowing people to change free of charge.  I can't say for sure if this was an option last June as the policies have changed many times as the pandemic has progressed.   Did you look at the Ryanair FAQs at the time? They have had a Covid section on the website since the pandemic started.

It will come own to you arguing that their agent gave you incorrect information.  They're not an airline known for their service at the best of times so I wouldn't expect them to change their position.  Not sure how you'd go about forcing the issue, they're an Irish company so UK Small Claims Court isn't an option.

On the insurance, I presume that the issue with Compare The Market vs going direct is that the policy terms are different.  Some companies will sell exclusive comparison site policies that may have different cover levels to what they sell direct.  Did your policy cover you for pandemics or Government travel advice?  You should be able to check this in the documents.

No mention of pandemic in the policy but it did cover for Government advice..."You cannot commence travel to your intended destination due to the (FCO) Foreign and Commonwealth Office advice for your destination/location changing to as a minimum ‘all but essential travel’ after the purchase of your policy or after the booking of any individual trip, whichever is the latter. This also applies to where such FCO advice changes are announced after you have commenced your trip/holiday"
As I had bought the policy pre covid and pre Government advice, I should have been covered. However, as I said previously, unfortunately my excess was more than the claim anyway.

Ryanair seem to be a law unto themselves and apart from pestering them, there doesn't appear to be a lot I can do.

Ok, as you say you should be covered under that travel insurance but it's a moot point if the excess is more than the tickets.

Ryanair and customer relations are never straightforward.  Whilst they are not obligated to provide a refund (and most airlines took the same stance to be fair) it is curious that their chat agent said the flight couldn't be moved.  They were allowing booking moves and waiving the fee, and I'm sure by June had the Covid-19 FAQs on their website.  The only thing I can think is that flight changes must be made at least 7 days before travel, but it sounds like you did contact them before then.

eskbanker

englishrob said:

I booked a flight for my family with Ryanair in June 2020 to travel from Bristol to Tenerife on 8th August 2020. The total cost was £333.03. At the time of booking, foreign travel was allowed, but on the 25th July, the Foreign Office advised against all non essential travel. It also meant that any travel insurance would be null and void If I decided to travel.

I contacted Ryanair immediately using their chat service and asked what my options were and was told by one of their agents that if I did not use the flight, I would lose the money.

There was no offer of a refund, voucher or change of flight.

[...]

They are now saying that I should have changed the flights, but unfortunately that option was not offered to me. If it had been, I'd have taken up the option in order not to lose my money or future holiday.

Did you book before or after June 10th?  As I understand it, that was when they introduced their free change policy, so if you perhaps booked earlier than that, you weren't entitled to the free change, and in that case the first advice would have been more accurate than the second.

Their page defining the policy, as archived in September 2020 (can't find an earlier one), is at http://web.archive.org/web/20200924234023/https://www.ryanair.com/ie/en/useful-info/no-change-fee

[Deleted User]

englishrob said:

smjxm09 said:

I hope you will not be booking a flight with Ryanair again otherwise they have won.

Not a chance!

Hahaha I would take a bet that many people pledging never to travel with Ryanair again will waiver when “the price is right”!  

With Ryanair  you really do need to study their t’s and c’s and rules before you book. I take it you didn’t?  Because what I can’t understand is why you would book flights in the middle of a pandemic (and in June 2020 the situation was very changeable) without checking what your options were if you were unable to travel for whatever reason.  I feel the telephone advisor was remiss in not pointing this out, however, as said I doubt it will have any effect on Ryanair. They’ve probably got this covered somewhere anyway.   So am thinking you may just have to suck it up and resolve to be more diligent in future. I can’t help thinking your options may have been displayed in your “account section of their website?   It’s annoying I know but thankfully not a massive amount for 3 people.   Could be so much worse.  

englishrob

Ok, as you say you should be covered under that travel insurance but it's a moot point if the excess is more than the tickets.

Ryanair and customer relations are never straightforward.  Whilst they are not obligated to provide a refund (and most airlines took the same stance to be fair) it is curious that their chat agent said the flight couldn't be moved.  They were allowing booking moves and waiving the fee, and I'm sure by June had the Covid-19 FAQs on their website.  The only thing I can think is that flight changes must be made at least 7 days before travel, but it sounds like you did contact them before then.



Did you book before or after June 10th?  As I understand it, that was when they introduced their free change policy, so if you perhaps booked earlier than that, you weren't entitled to the free change, and in that case the first advice would have been more accurate than the second.

Thank you bagan96 and eskbanker for your replies. As you can see from the screenshots above, the agent was not offering any resolution. The flight was booked on the 24th June, I think the Government brought in the advice on the 25th July, the chat above would have been on the 25th or the26th at the latest and my departure date was the 8th August.
I can accept the result of the insurance because of the excess, but Ryanair are just not helping in any way, and of course they were using the excuse of operating the flight outbound to bring people back.