Problems finding an ethical pension

Malthusian

chilswelluk said:

Andy_L said:

You can hold shares in an individual company so you could vet that company to see if it is ok but most investing is done via funds that have lots of companies in them and vetting all of them to ensure zero animal association would be a lot of research effort and require a lot of philosophical thought on where to draw the line

I think investing in individual companies is totally out, I just don't have the time to do the research that it would take. 

But if you want to exclude livestock agriculture entirely, which is a very specific crtierion that few if any managers in the retail market will cater for, that is realistically what it takes. I do not think funds work for someone like you because your aims are so specific that even if a fund appears to cater for it, there will still probably be something they invest in that you object to. And even if it doesn't they may add an objectionable share in the future. And that fund may be concentrated in a particular sector which leaves your portfolio unbalanced (e.g. the only fund you can find is UK equities only).

Wanting something so badly that it keeps you awake at night but not wanting to do the thing that will get it for you is the worst of both worlds.

I need to find something ASAP, as I am about to pull the plug on my work scheme, as I am really not happy with how the pension is invested.

Would you be forfeiting employer contributions by doing so? Taking a voluntary pay cut doesn't help either you or animals. If that is the case there are other a couple of other options to continue receiving employer contributions while assuaging your ethics.

AnotherJoe

chilswelluk said:

I am having problems looking for an ethical pension.  As a vegan, my main criteria is that I don't want anything that will invest in animal experimentation (medical or non medical) or animal agriculture.  I want zero investment in these areas, but can't find any suitable schemes.  Zero investment is important, as many schemes brand themselves as ethical in these areas, but still invest a small percentage in these sectors.  Many schemes branded as ethical also prioritise criteria such as not investing in gambling, alcohol, pornography etc, however I don't hold strong views in theses areas.  Does anyone know of any schemes that meet my ethical criteria?

I"m not surprised, you are like the drunk looking for his car keys under a streetlight who when asked "did you drop them here?" says "no but this where the light is"

"pensions" arent ethical, the investments in them, may be, according to your criteria, so pick some investments. accordingt o your criteria.

And to comment on something else you said, "I haven't got the time to look at shares / I have sleepless nights" well use those sleepless nights to research shares or funds that are unlikely to invest in the areas you dislike if its that important to you.

I am pretty sure there are funds that invest in meat alternatives, for example theres "beyond meat" and similar IIRC there are funds that hold that type of thing just as there are 'alternative energy' funds.

But its not going to just drop in your lap so if you care so strongly about this, take some time out, use those sleepless nights, to find the investments be they funds or shares

Literally five seconds typing in a google search got me this list of investments. 

https://vegfaqs.com/vegan-companies-to-invest-in/

And of course there are companies that wont invest in livestock simply because of their mandate, eg I imagine a gold mining fund or a technology fund,or an arms fund or cannabis or pornography fund wont be investing in livestock (well probably not for the latter ).

As for your employers pension, in many cases you have the option to transfer the investments out to your own personal pension whilst then starting to build up again in the employers, and unless the employer has a very restrictive set of choices the odds are hight theres something you can park the money in for a few months even if its just a cash fund.

Not taking your employers contribution would be a bad idea especially since its almost certain theres a cash option in there.

 

cfw1994

^

Wot AnotherJoe said. 

DYOR, always (regardless of guidance people on an Internet forum may suggest, that makes sense)l

The pension is *just* a tax-efficient vehicle.  Pick investments to suit your views.
Have you investigated your work scheme to see if fund options there might be suitable?  Ours have US tech funds (for example), and I doubt they are doing terrible things to animals.

Thrugelmir

cfw1994 said:

  Ours have US tech funds (for example), and I doubt they are doing terrible things to animals.

Though probably don't care about their supply chains and whether child labour is involved in activities such as mining. 

chilswelluk

AnotherJoe said:

Not taking your employers contribution would be a bad idea especially since its almost certain theres a cash option in there.

 

But I thought the employer is only obliged to contribute to their own scheme and not a private scheme selected by an individual?  If my employer does not have a scheme that sits comfortably with my ethics, I seem to be out of luck as far as the employer contributions are concerned.  Or are there other options?

Thrugelmir

chilswelluk said:

AnotherJoe said:

Not taking your employers contribution would be a bad idea especially since its almost certain theres a cash option in there.

 

But I thought the employer is only obliged to contribute to their own scheme and not a private scheme selected by an individual?  If my employer does not have a scheme that sits comfortably with my ethics, I seem to be out of luck as far as the employer contributions are concerned.  Or are there other options?

Your employer is going to want the administrative hassle of dealing with multiple pension providers. Take the money on offer. Accept the default fund. Then transfer it elsewhere at a later date. The alternative is to opt out. 

AnotherJoe

Thrugelmir said:

cfw1994 said:

  Ours have US tech funds (for example), and I doubt they are doing terrible things to animals.

Though probably don't care about their supply chains and whether child labour is involved in activities such as mining. 

Au contraire, if only because of the many eyes upon them, amd such incidents seem to get found reported and corrected much quicker than some non descript unfashionable company. 

However since in OPs case it seems child labour would be OK, just not animal labour, so that wouldn't matter. 

chilswelluk

AnotherJoe said:

However since in OPs case it seems child labour would be OK, just not animal labour, so that wouldn't matter. 

That is a misrepresentation.  I think child labour is abhorrent, but nearly every major company has a clear policy against it and will take action if it is found in their supply chains.  That is a totally different situation than actively investing in a practice that you find abhorrent.

chilswelluk

Thrugelmir said:

Your employer is going to want the administrative hassle of dealing with multiple pension providers. Take the money on offer. Accept the default fund. Then transfer it elsewhere at a later date. The alternative is to opt out. 

But if I have a problem with the way the fund is invested, it's not an option for me to leave things as they are.  If I could just leave  cash in the fund (as you can do with a SIPP), that would not be a problem.  But I don't want my contributions invested in practices that I find ethically unacceptable.  I am amazed how ridged my employers scheme is, it gives almost no individual flexibility over the investments made.  So what option do I have other than opt out of my employers pension scheme?  Yes I will loose the contributions, but I am deeply unhappy at the way things stand.
Maybe I should look at one of the SIPP providers here:
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/cheap-sipps/
But it's going to work out more expensive and more hands on. 

dunstonh

 I am amazed how ridged my employers scheme is, it gives almost no individual flexibility over the investments made. 

Because the vast majority of people are not investors and the more options you add, the more complicated it gets.  The more complicated it gets, the more likely mistakes will be made or people will be put off.

So what option do I have other than opt out of my employers pension scheme?

Leave it in cash and periodically do a partial transfer out.  Or, if the employer scheme has an ESG option then use that. If they don't they will be required to do so soon.   Doubling your money due to employer contributions is equivalent of around 10 years growth.  So, even if you go in cash and ever x years do a partial transfer, it is better than opting out.

Also, a number of providers will not accept pension contributions from someone that has opted out without an adviser agreeing to it (which they wont).

But it's going to work out more expensive and more hands on. 

Yes it will and that is a consequence of your niche ethical beliefs.      The mainstream caters for the mainstream.  If you go off mainstream, then it is inevitable that things become more difficult and/or expensive.