Furlough and Holiday Pay

debsa

Hi, This morning I was told by my employer that they need me to take all my 2020 holiday from the 1st March 2021; I am owed a full years holiday entitlement and am currently furloughed. They said that the end of March I would receive 100% of my monthly salary, rather than the 80% of the furlough I have been receiving - this will equate to approximately £200 extra on the months pay for 28 days owed holiday which doesn't seem right; HMRC's definition of what should be considered as holiday is this:  "If an employer requires a worker to take holiday while on furlough, the employer should consider whether any restrictions the worker is under, such as the need to socially distance or self-isolate, would prevent the worker from resting, relaxing and enjoying leisure time, which is the fundamental purpose of holiday." 
I would argue that taking 4 weeks holiday during the pandemic does not meet the essence of "the fundamental purpose of a holiday" as I live alone, socially distance from everyone and it is not relaxing and does not allow me leisure time that I would ordinarily enjoy on a "normal" holiday. I am sure some people would perhaps see me as being greedy for expecting to get my holiday pay on top of furlough but I don't think, in the current circumstances, this is working fairly for employees. Does anyone else feel the same and is there anything we can do about it. (Also is three days notice to take 4 weeks holiday permitted by an employer?) I work for such a small firm that staffing numbers would make it near-on impossible for the employer to let us carry over the holiday to next year (which I completely understand) Look forward to hearing others' opinions. 

Jeremy535897

An employer must give you 8 weeks notice for 4 weeks holiday, unless your employment contract says otherwise. Unfortunately the remedy for breaching this requirement is to go to an employment tribunal.

There has long been a debate was to whether it is proper to oblige furloughed employees to use holiday when furloughed, but the government advice is clear that an employer can do this, so long as the employees are furloughed because of coronavirus. An example of unacceptable use of furlough to cover holiday is when a business always closes down for a period (for example 2 weeks at Christmas). That business cannot furlough its employees just for those 2 weeks.

On the whole, I think that employees should be grateful that there is a furlough scheme, where they would otherwise have been made redundant.

debsa

Thank you Jeremy. I agree that the furlough scheme has been a complete lifeline, but is being paid by the government, not the employer.( And will ultimately be paid by our taxes in the long-term) I feel like the employer is just taking advantage of their staff, especially as their employees are only on the minimum living wage already and receiving 80% of salary. Unfortunately, the thought of taking my employer to tribunal would not give anyone a solution that would make working relations good in the future, a fact that the employer is probably counting on!

sheramber

 I am sure some people would perhaps see me as being greedy for expecting to get my holiday pay on top of furlough but I don't think, in the current circumstances, this is working fairly for employees. 
You cannot get holiday pay AND furlough pay. It is one or the other. 
 does not allow me leisure time that I would ordinarily enjoy on a "normal" holiday.
Nobody has had a normal holiday for the last year and it may be some time before we can enjoy a 'normal' holiday again.

debsa

If I'd chosen to take the time as holiday, I wouldn't expect furlough!

Jeremy535897

The government doesn't pay the full costs of furlough, and employers have a lot of other costs, but the pandemic has highlighted how weak the employment legislation designed to protect employees is, in times of national difficulty.

Thrugelmir

debsa said:

If I'd chosen to take the time as holiday, I wouldn't expect furlough!

Furlough isn't a right. Employers have the option of making employees redundant. The economy has a long way to go to recover.  Redundancies are far from over. Attitude never goes unnoticed. 

debsa

I was also thinking of some of my colleagues who have spent all of lockdown caring for their elderly parents and haven't had any break for themselves. 

sharpe106

What about people that actually had to go into work for the full year and have had to take holiday? Should they get it all back too?

Apintplease

debsa said:

Hi, This morning I was told by my employer that they need me to take all my 2020 holiday from the 1st March 2021; I am owed a full years holiday entitlement and am currently furloughed. They said that the end of March I would receive 100% of my monthly salary, rather than the 80% of the furlough I have been receiving - this will equate to approximately £200 extra on the months pay for 28 days owed holiday which doesn't seem right; HMRC's definition of what should be considered as holiday is this:  "If an employer requires a worker to take holiday while on furlough, the employer should consider whether any restrictions the worker is under, such as the need to socially distance or self-isolate, would prevent the worker from resting, relaxing and enjoying leisure time, which is the fundamental purpose of holiday." 
I would argue that taking 4 weeks holiday during the pandemic does not meet the essence of "the fundamental purpose of a holiday" as I live alone, socially distance from everyone and it is not relaxing and does not allow me leisure time that I would ordinarily enjoy on a "normal" holiday. I am sure some people would perhaps see me as being greedy for expecting to get my holiday pay on top of furlough but I don't think, in the current circumstances, this is working fairly for employees. Does anyone else feel the same and is there anything we can do about it. (Also is three days notice to take 4 weeks holiday permitted by an employer?) I work for such a small firm that staffing numbers would make it near-on impossible for the employer to let us carry over the holiday to next year (which I completely understand) Look forward to hearing others' opinions. 

Seriously ????

You are being paid to sit on your !!!!!! and relax and then being asked by your employer to take four weeks of it on full pay, and you are whinging?????

You know theres been a whole army of us out working in !!!!!! low paid jobs so you can get your mail, your deliveries and your shopping. In fact our work load has increased and we are struggling to get our holidays in. Id love a week off to sit and do sod all on 100% of my wages. You dont have to go anywhere to get a rest from work

unholyangel

That's not HMRCs definition of holiday. HMRC have nothing to do with employment rights except NMW.

Also when they say "such as the need to socially distance or self isolate" I would take that to mean they're talking about testing positive. Since you can't force an employee to take annual leave if they're on sick leave.