Careless driving after a crash

sevenhills

MEM62 said:

From where are you getting your assumption that any driver involved in a crash has automatically committed an offence?  And why refer to a statement from a Sheriff in LA when US Law is irrelevant in the UK?  

One of the two drivers involved in a crash is likely to not have paid enough attention to the road and other vehicles, that's careless.

sheramber

How do you know they do not get convictions? 
Court cases can be months or years after the event depending on the circumstances.
In one local case the driver concerned was required to travel back from his home France to attend court a year after the crash.
In another it was over a year before the case came to court as one  person was seriously injured and did not leave hospital for over a year.

AdrianC

sevenhills said:

MEM62 said:

From where are you getting your assumption that any driver involved in a crash has automatically committed an offence?  And why refer to a statement from a Sheriff in LA when US Law is irrelevant in the UK?  

One of the two drivers involved in a crash is likely to not have paid enough attention to the road and other vehicles, that's careless.

But which?
And would an awareness course or a fixed penalty £100/3pt be most appropriate punishment, assuming it is clear-cut?

Car_54

AdrianC said:

sevenhills said:

MEM62 said:

From where are you getting your assumption that any driver involved in a crash has automatically committed an offence?  And why refer to a statement from a Sheriff in LA when US Law is irrelevant in the UK?  

One of the two drivers involved in a crash is likely to not have paid enough attention to the road and other vehicles, that's careless.

But which?
And would an awareness course or a fixed penalty £100/3pt be most appropriate punishment, assuming it is clear-cut?

AIUI the police will only issue an FP for careless where they have witnessed it, and where there has not been a collision. That was certainly the NPCC's position when the FPs were introduced in 2013, and does not seem to have been updated.

williamgriffin

Car_54 said:

AdrianC said:

sevenhills said:

MEM62 said:

From where are you getting your assumption that any driver involved in a crash has automatically committed an offence?  And why refer to a statement from a Sheriff in LA when US Law is irrelevant in the UK?  

One of the two drivers involved in a crash is likely to not have paid enough attention to the road and other vehicles, that's careless.

But which?
And would an awareness course or a fixed penalty £100/3pt be most appropriate punishment, assuming it is clear-cut?

AIUI the police will only issue an FP for careless where they have witnessed it, and where there has not been a collision. That was certainly the NPCC's position when the FPs were introduced in 2013, and does not seem to have been updated.

It goes back further than that, you couldn't give a fixed penalty for any offence following a collision. 

[Deleted User]

Driver who hit me when cycling got offered a course or a careless driving fine/points. IMHO anyone who uses the "sorry I didn't see you" particularly for incidents involving bikes or motorbikes (due to the relatively higher chance of injury) is automatically pleading guilty to driving without due care and attention and should get points and a fine plus a course.

williamgriffin

Deleted_User said:

Driver who hit me when cycling got offered a course or a careless driving fine/points. IMHO anyone who uses the "sorry I didn't see you" particularly for incidents involving bikes or motorbikes (due to the relatively higher chance of injury) is automatically pleading guilty to driving without due care and attention and should get points and a fine plus a course.

You can't change the criminal justice system because an organ donor was involved. 

It not always a case of careless just because they didn't see someone on two wheels. What if it's dark and the cyclist is in dark clothing and has no lights?

Aretnap

MEM62 said:

sevenhills said:

I have noticed that drivers, more often than not, don't get any sort of driving conviction after crashing their vehicle, even when the police are aware. 

From where are you getting your assumption that any driver involved in a crash has automatically committed an offence? 

Obviously it's not true that any driver involved in a crash is guilty of careless driving. OTOH there are certain things - hitting a stationary object, hitting a pedestrian, crossing a white line in the middle of the road - which can be taken as prima facie evidence of careless driving. In other words, if a driver does one of those things then the court should convict him of careless driving unless he can offer a reasonable alternative explanation. If he does offer a reasonable explanation then it falls to the prosecution to disprove his account - but not to disprove any other unlikely but theoretically possible explanation of why he had the accident.

http://archive.commercialmotor.com/article/19th-november-1976/56/careless-driving

So if a driver is found in his car in a ditch at the side of the road, and can't or won't explain how he got there, then he should be convicted of careless driving. In theory, at least.

sevenhills

sheramber said:

How do you know they do not get convictions?

People are giving their experiences. I have had a couple of minor accidents over the last 40 years, non involved the police. Perhaps insurance companies should be informing the police about these crimes?

Our police are quite lax when you think about it, too busy perhaps.

Car_54

sevenhills said:

sheramber said:

How do you know they do not get convictions?

People are giving their experiences. I have had a couple of minor accidents over the last 40 years, non involved the police. Perhaps insurance companies should be informing the police about these crimes?

Our police are quite lax when you think about it, too busy perhaps.

How can you accuse the police of being lax about accidents they don’t hear about?
If there are no injuries there is no reason for them to get involved, unless someone makes an accusation of a criminal offence.