Probate - do we have a problem?

xylophone

There is an image of the new style Grant here https://www.rochelegal.co.uk/news/changes-to-grants-of-probate/

Is  administration of the estate to be granted to your parents or to the probate manager?

You say that you (your parents) have signed a contract with the "probate manager"/his company.

If a company, is  it registered at Companies House?

What exactly has been agreed with regard to the authority granted to the "probate manager"?

Was he authorised merely to obtain probate on their behalf?

If so,  how can  the bank accept that he was authorised to close your late Uncle's account and move money elsewhere?

We know my Uncle's account has been closed, and the savings have been moved, but have been told this is normal procedure.

Told by whom?

Horsin

Estate administration is signed over to the probate manager: 'We will carry out the complete administration of the estate on your behalf....Once probate has been granted and the estate has been settled your solicitor will distribute the estate to the beneficiaries and provide you with a full set of estate accounts so you can see exactly what was in the estate and how it was distributed.'

 Because one of the beneficiaries needs his part put into Trust and there are other beneficiaries that are distant family, we decided to get help. So basically, the Probate Manager is now the estate administrator. So by signing the contract, we hand responsibility and authority to him.

Yes, the company is registered at Companies House. I have a friend that works in a bank, and she has said it is quite normal (for estates with savings under 50k) for monies to be released before Probate - scary really, isn't it?

xylophone

It is true that banks have varying amounts that they will release without a Grant of Probate to a person who has the right to receive the monies - it now appears that your parents granted that right to the  Probate Manager.

I note that he is referred to  "your solicitor" in the agreement above - presumably therefore this "probate manager" is actually a solicitor and he has moved the money to his client account?



When was he last in touch with you?

Horsin

No, I now don't think he is a solicitor...I think this is just advantageous wording...
He was actually last in touch with me this morning. After a sleepless night I messaged him to ask if he had managed to chase the probate (meant to have been initially sent mid November). He has said he will enquire via email and hopefully hear back by early next week....and would then be in touch again....but this is the last in a long list of reasons/excuses.

xylophone

Have you asked him where the money from your uncle's account is being held?

 I messaged him to ask if he had managed to chase the probate (meant to have been initially sent mid November). He has said he will enquire via email and hopefully hear back by early next week....and would then be in touch again....

He will make an enquiry of the Probate Registry as you tried to do yourself but to no avail?

Or he will contact the colleague in the UK office who is said to have  submitted a copy (rather than the original will)  with the application for probate and subsequently resubmitted both the copy and the original will?

Surely if the Probate Registry returned the copy there must have been a covering letter with a reference that can be used in enquiries?

xylophone

Another point, you mention your late Uncle's  house.

Is it empty? If so, has the insurance company been advised?

And what has happened about utilities etc?

And how is the probate manager going to deal with selling the property?

tiengomar

shouldn't the op be reporting this to the police?

Horsin

He'll enquire with the registry. Yes, I would also have thought there would be a reference on the return....but he says he has no reference.
The house will be sold, after probate. I informed utilities etc when my Uncle passed away - all bills frozen for them until the estate is 'sorted'. The probate manager is meant to have the house insured....I haven't checked though  (good point). 
No, I haven't asked him yet about the monies because I've been told this is quite normal procedure - at the moment he obviously doesn't know I am making enquiries/having doubts.
Not sure what I would report to the police at the moment - I have doubts, but it could also be totally above board, and just taking a long time......that's why I thought to ask here first and see what other people's experiences have been.

xylophone

• shouldn't the op be reporting this to the police?

  On what grounds (at least for the moment)? 

  The parents (named exors) have entered into a contract with the "probate manager" (or his company) - they have agreed that responsibility for administration will be taken by him.

  It is clear that he was able to  demonstrate to the bank (presumably with documentation), that he had the authority to close the deceased's bank account and transfer out the money.

  It may be that he is holding this money in his client account - one would certainly hope so - under no circumstances should it have been transferred to his personal account.

   Although abroad for around a year, he is still in contact with the OP (who seems to be acting for his parents) so has not simply disappeared into the blue.

  You can't report somebody to the police for being dilatory in their professional duties - well you can I suppose but you can't expect them to take any action.....

  If the probate manager continues to fail to perform the contracted services within  the next couple of months, I should think that the OP (his parents) might wish to consult a solicitor with a view to repudiating the contract, obtaining the return of the money and dealing with probate themselves?   The legal advice route might well be essential as the probate manager has already "intermeddled" in the estate.

  
  

Horsin

xylophone said:

• shouldn't the op be reporting this to the police?

  On what grounds (at least for the moment)? 

  .....

   Although abroad for around a year, he is still in contact with the OP (who seems to be acting for his parents) so has not simply disappeared into the blue.

  You can't report somebody to the police for being dilatory in their professional duties - well you can I suppose but you can't expect them to take any action.....

  If the probate manager continues to fail to perform the contracted services within  the next couple of months, I should think that the OP (his parents) might wish to consult a solicitor with a view to repudiating the contract, obtaining the return of the money and dealing with probate themselves?   The legal advice route might well be essential as the probate manager has already "intermeddled" in the estate.

  
  

Yes xylophone, I think that is probably where I am at. If I am still not happy with the responses/information I am getting by the end of next week, I will make an official complaint to the probate manager and enquire with a different solicitor about how to go about ending that contract, obtaining all the original certificates etc and starting probate proceedings ourselves. Luckily, we have copies or have taken photographs of all original documents etc before passing them over.