Possible PayPal Scam

Peterelainecalv

Hello all. In October of last year, I sold a computer component on Ebay to the value of £68. However, on the 19th February I received an email from PayPal stating that the buyer has stated that they did not authorise the payment. PayPal informed me that they would close the case on March 1st and the transaction amount would be debited from my account. After 4 months I no longer have the proof of posting (I do know it was sent by Recorded Delivery). I have tried emailing the person with the email address provided to me by PayPal asking the buyer to clarify the issue but to no avail. Another complication is that I can now find no details of the sales transaction as Ebay only keep this information on your account details for 60 days. I have requested this information from Ebay but have been told it will take up to 14 days to arrive, by which time it will be too late. I have tried using the PayPal Resolution Centre but they will not allow this without the tracking number. I am currently trying to get more clarification through their message centre but I just got the following message: 

'Welcome to PayPal messaging, my name is Manuel from disputes and claims. Let me assist you today! I understand that you would like to get additional information from us about this case. This payment was disputed by your buyer through their bank and it is the buyer's bank decision to take the funds from your account and return it to the buyer because the payment was disputed as unauthorized. If you are asking for the tracking details I recommend you to get in touch with the courier and check with them the details because it is not on the transaction details.'

My personal view is that this is a scam; the buyer is trying to get their money back as well as keep the item I sold in good faith. It does not take 4 months to notice that a payment has been made for an Ebay item. 
I am at my wits end with this, so would be most grateful for any thoughts or comments.

soolin

Unfortunately whilst this is the easiest claim for a seller to defend , you do need the proof of,posting. Too late for you but for others reading this please keep all POPs for 180days minimum.

I have seen some people recently use proof of delivery with online tracking to defend this claim, although technically PayPal say that isn’t sufficient . When you sold the item did you not add the tracking to EBay and /or PayPal as required to defend a later INR claim?  If you did then I’d try defending the claim with POD which should still be available on the PayPal transaction 

pbartlett

If the facts are as you stated then you have been the victim of a crime (fraud) - report the crime online to actionfraud, get a crime number, give this to Paypal.

Peterelainecalv

Hello, I am not sure if I added the tracking the number to the Ebay sale as I cannot find this information on my PayPal sold items as it only lists items for the last 60 days. I have applied to Ebay for the details of this sale but have to wait up to 14 days for this information. By that time PayPal will have deducted the money from my account. My personal view is that Ebay should clearly state that all items sold on their website must have a tracking number as the buyer can claim their money back within 180 days if tracking is not available. This is an easy scam to perform and Ebay/PayPal have a moral duty to protect customers against this. I am going to report this to ActionFraud in case this seller has tried this before.

soolin

Peterelainecalv said:

Hello, I am not sure if I added the tracking the number to the Ebay sale as I cannot find this information on my PayPal sold items as it only lists items for the last 60 days. I have applied to Ebay for the details of this sale but have to wait up to 14 days for this information. By that time PayPal will have deducted the money from my account. My personal view is that Ebay should clearly state that all items sold on their website must have a tracking number as the buyer can claim their money back within 180 days if tracking is not available. This is an easy scam to perform and Ebay/PayPal have a moral duty to protect customers against this. I am going to report this to ActionFraud in case this seller has tried this before.

This is a PayPal claim not an eBay claim, they are different companies, EBay do not have a 180 day policy, only PayPal has that. PayPal do warn about the chargeback system, but in fairness unless you read the t and cs, and no one ever does, you won’t have seen it. We do cover it in our sticky thread here on MSE. 

On PayPal you can go back several years to see transactions just use the search at the top of the page , so if you find the transaction it will clearly show the tracking number if you added it at time of sale. Hopefully you added the tracking, there is absolutely no reason not to at point of sale, so when you find the tracking, grab a screen shot of the RM site to show delivery, phone PayPal and argue your case. 

Peterelainecalv

Hello, it would appear from comments PayPal have made to me through their messages page that proof of delivery is not the primary issue as they claim it is the buyers bank that are stating that the item was paid for by an unauthorised withdrawal (they won't clarify that statement). I have asked PayPal to also clarify if they are implying I have managed to make an unauthorised withdrawal (I don't know how on earth that could be done) but, as expected they will not comment on this.
I can only advise everyone who sells items on Ebay to send the items by Special Delivery and then enter the transaction details on the Ebay website or keep the proof of purchase for 180 days. However, in my case it would appear PayPal are going to take the money out of my account whether or not I have proof of purchase.

soolin

Peterelainecalv said:

Hello, it would appear from comments PayPal have made to me through their messages page that proof of delivery is not the primary issue as they claim it is the buyers bank that are stating that the item was paid for by an unauthorised withdrawal (they won't clarify that statement). I have asked PayPal to also clarify if they are implying I have managed to make an unauthorised withdrawal (I don't know how on earth that could be done) but, as expected they will not comment on this.
I can only advise everyone who sells items on Ebay to send the items by Special Delivery and then enter the transaction details on the Ebay website or keep the proof of purchase for 180 days. However, in my case it would appear PayPal are going to take the money out of my account whether or not I have proof of purchase.

You are misunderstanding the PayPal seller protection. All you need to defend a claim for fraud is proof of posting, but you say you don’t have that. As I said above I have seen some people defend this with proof of delivery, which is not actually what PayPal require. 

This explains it
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3146680/postage-a-helpful-guide-revised-3-april-2017

I used to get about 3 of the claims for fraud a year when I was selling a lot, and won each and every claim merely by providing POP. 

I’m not entirely sure what you mean by having proof of purchase? 

For a claim for fraud you must upload proof of,posting, for an INR claim you need proof of delivery.