Land Registry Query & Rent Charge

stephenwatt98

Hi,
I'm hoping someone might be able to help me, or someone from Land Registry might read this and be able to help out.
I'm purchasing a property and as part of the solicitor's checks it has been identified that the property has a histroic rent charge of £4.50 on it. The lender (Barclays) have refused to lend unless this is altered of removed.
The seller are progressing buying the rent charge and it is currently expadited with Land Registry, however we need to exchange very quickly or I risk being left without a house for myself/daughter and I'm getting desperate. If anyone from Land Registery reads these forums and can do anything to progress it quickly any help would be much appreciated.
Alternatively if anyone knows of a lender who will be happy to lend with the rent charge still on the title deed of the on the property and could get to offer quickly if they could please let me know.

Any help much appreciated.
Thanks
Stephen Watt

greatcrested

What timescale did the LR give you when you rang them?

dimbo61

WOW I bought a terraced house in Manchester only 7 years ago with a Rentcharge of about £3,80 a year and Santander had No problems with this.
Six years later we get a Rent demand for 6 years back payment so about £24 plus this year's charge.
We managed to buy the whole rent charge for £80 as it runs out in 2037 buy wanted it sorted.
Can't understand why Barclays want you to sort this but it maybe difficult finding who owns the Rentcharge !

princeofpounds

dimbo61 said:

WOW I bought a terraced house in Manchester only 7 years ago with a Rentcharge of about £3,80 a year and Santander had No problems with this.
Six years later we get a Rent demand for 6 years back payment so about £24 plus this year's charge.
We managed to buy the whole rent charge for £80 as it runs out in 2037 buy wanted it sorted.
Can't understand why Barclays want you to sort this but it maybe difficult finding who owns the Rentcharge !

The way mortgage lenders look at rentcharges has changed in the last 7 years. Following an appeal decision in Roberts v. Lawton, it turned out rentcharge owners could use rather archaic laws to cause trouble if the rentcharges aren't paid. In particular, they could mess with the property title - which is the security for the lenders - by issuing a lease on the property. Prior to this, everyone kind of assumed it wasn't something that could happen.

The land registry are active and exceptionally helpful on this forum (remarkable really for a public sector institution). They may pick this thread up, but this is their user account: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/profile/Land_Registry. 

Rubygracesza

Hi Stephen and all, 
I have been searching for help for exactly the same problem. We were told by our solicitors weeks ago that the rent charge was historic and will not be a problem; all that was needed was indemnity insurance. Then gave notice on our rented house as this was literally the last part of the process before completion. Yesterday, Barclays told our broker that the indemnity insurance would not suffice and we would need to get the rent charge removed/revoked to continue. Our solicitors have been hopelessly incompetent throughout the whole process, and she is now claiming her approach will be to 'persuade' Barclays to 'see sense'. I don't think there is any 'sense' to be compelled to here. This seems to be a legal position held by Barclays.
In our case, the rent charge was granted in 1937 and the owners are likely to be dead. The sellers didn't know anything about the rent charge and have never paid it since living in the property (over 30 years.) How would we even find out who owns the rent charge so as to purchase it? I understand it is possible to buy it. I want to know how long this whole process is likely to take. 
I don't understand why our solicitors weren't able to spot this issue earlier in the process and why they still don't seem to understand that many lenders have changed their stance on historic rent charges. 
Any advice greatly appreciated. 

Land_Registry

stephenwatt98 said:

Hi,
I'm hoping someone might be able to help me, or someone from Land Registry might read this and be able to help out.
I'm purchasing a property and as part of the solicitor's checks it has been identified that the property has a histroic rent charge of £4.50 on it. The lender (Barclays) have refused to lend unless this is altered of removed.
The seller are progressing buying the rent charge and it is currently expadited with Land Registry, however we need to exchange very quickly or I risk being left without a house for myself/daughter and I'm getting desperate. If anyone from Land Registery reads these forums and can do anything to progress it quickly any help would be much appreciated.
Alternatively if anyone knows of a lender who will be happy to lend with the rent charge still on the title deed of the on the property and could get to offer quickly if they could please let me know.

Any help much appreciated.
Thanks
Stephen Watt

If it’s been expedited then it should be considered within a few days. We will have quoted 10 days but it’s usually looked at much sooner. 

There’s no speedier way to approach it so if it’s all in order there shouldn't be a problem. Just check with the solicitor or get your own to check through their secure portal  

Land_Registry

Rubygracesza said:

Hi Stephen and all, 
I have been searching for help for exactly the same problem. We were told by our solicitors weeks ago that the rent charge was historic and will not be a problem; all that was needed was indemnity insurance. Then gave notice on our rented house as this was literally the last part of the process before completion. Yesterday, Barclays told our broker that the indemnity insurance would not suffice and we would need to get the rent charge removed/revoked to continue. Our solicitors have been hopelessly incompetent throughout the whole process, and she is now claiming her approach will be to 'persuade' Barclays to 'see sense'. I don't think there is any 'sense' to be compelled to here. This seems to be a legal position held by Barclays.
In our case, the rent charge was granted in 1937 and the owners are likely to be dead. The sellers didn't know anything about the rent charge and have never paid it since living in the property (over 30 years.) How would we even find out who owns the rent charge so as to purchase it? I understand it is possible to buy it. I want to know how long this whole process is likely to take. 
I don't understand why our solicitors weren't able to spot this issue earlier in the process and why they still don't seem to understand that many lenders have changed their stance on historic rent charges. 
Any advice greatly appreciated. 

Your problem seems to be different as the OP has a seller who has managed to buy their rentcharge. 

You DM me and it reads as if you are very dependent on your legal advice/assistance. 

Note - in my experience Lenders offer a wide range of mortgages and each set different parameters which have to be met. It’s rare that they are identical so if you go with a lender and a specific mortgage product you have to meet those parameters. No choice 

stephenwatt98

dimbo61 said:

WOW I bought a terraced house in Manchester only 7 years ago with a Rentcharge of about £3,80 a year and Santander had No problems with this.
Six years later we get a Rent demand for 6 years back payment so about £24 plus this year's charge.
We managed to buy the whole rent charge for £80 as it runs out in 2037 buy wanted it sorted.
Can't understand why Barclays want you to sort this but it maybe difficult finding who owns the Rentcharge !

Hi,
I think it's become more of an issue recently, certain companies have taken advantage of non payment on these to effectively take houses, so companies are reluctant to lend.

stephenwatt98

Rubygracesza said:

Hi Stephen and all, 
I have been searching for help for exactly the same problem. We were told by our solicitors weeks ago that the rent charge was historic and will not be a problem; all that was needed was indemnity insurance. Then gave notice on our rented house as this was literally the last part of the process before completion. Yesterday, Barclays told our broker that the indemnity insurance would not suffice and we would need to get the rent charge removed/revoked to continue. Our solicitors have been hopelessly incompetent throughout the whole process, and she is now claiming her approach will be to 'persuade' Barclays to 'see sense'. I don't think there is any 'sense' to be compelled to here. This seems to be a legal position held by Barclays.
In our case, the rent charge was granted in 1937 and the owners are likely to be dead. The sellers didn't know anything about the rent charge and have never paid it since living in the property (over 30 years.) How would we even find out who owns the rent charge so as to purchase it? I understand it is possible to buy it. I want to know how long this whole process is likely to take. 
I don't understand why our solicitors weren't able to spot this issue earlier in the process and why they still don't seem to understand that many lenders have changed their stance on historic rent charges. 
Any advice greatly appreciated. 

Hi @Ruby@Rubygracesza
Apologies, I'm not sure it will help you much, but I was told by my solicitor that if the owner of the Rent Charge wasn't known we'd go down the indemnity route, however in my case as the owner was known we would have to buy it out or undertake a deed of variation on it to add certain notification clauses etc.
Thanks
Stephen Watt

Rubygracesza

Thanks for your response. I have now found who owns the rent charge by asking the neighbours. The company seem to be as crooked as they come. No website, no email address and no phone number. You can only contact them by letter and you can only pay by cheque! If the cheque is late, they impose huge fines. Since the owners died and their son (the executor) dealing with the estate knew nothing about the rent charge, I can only imagine the fines they will be imposing after not receiving their £4.20 for the last 12 months. I am waiting by snail mail to find out how much they will charge for us to buy the rent charge. 
I can't understand how companies like this are still allowed to operate! Do you mind me asking how much your rent charge has been calculated for and how long the process is likely to take? 
Many thanks, 
Ruby 

stephenwatt98

Rubygracesza said:

Thanks for your response. I have now found who owns the rent charge by asking the neighbours. The company seem to be as crooked as they come. No website, no email address and no phone number. You can only contact them by letter and you can only pay by cheque! If the cheque is late, they impose huge fines. Since the owners died and their son (the executor) dealing with the estate knew nothing about the rent charge, I can only imagine the fines they will be imposing after not receiving their £4.20 for the last 12 months. I am waiting by snail mail to find out how much they will charge for us to buy the rent charge. 
I can't understand how companies like this are still allowed to operate! Do you mind me asking how much your rent charge has been calculated for and how long the process is likely to take? 
Many thanks, 
Ruby 

Hi Ruby,
Sorry for the delay. We didn't use the official process, but went to the company directly. Cost was £100 and 10 days for them to provide the document required. It then goes to land registry who I believe can take a while, but have a 10 day turnaround to look at it if you get into their escalation process (is if it's likely to cause hardship if it takes longer - there's an escalation submission route or you can call them after submission).
Steve