Opening meter reading before switch date?

wild666

masonic said:

bristolleedsfan said:

I am not contradicting stated procedure merely stating that it clearly did not happen on switches that I have referred to. Scottish Power sent email on switchout date stating if I gave then a final reading ensuring that it was the same as reading I gave to new supplier ( So Energy) it would issue a final statement based on reading I give/gave, as it was I was only able to give change over reading to So Energy

SP -  Final Bill issued with credit in my Bank Account 10 actual days after switchover date, reading clearly did not go to Meter Validation third party service

So Energy created final Bill on 3rd actual day following switchout date to GNE - reading clearly did not go to Meter Validation third party service

My experience has been that SP is quick to issue a final bill, using an estimated final readings if necessary. I had little choice but to give them the actual reads I gave to my new supplier, Octopus, and hope all goes well. Meanwhile, Octopus has informed me that they can't start billing me yet as my opening readings are still being validated, that this could take 4-6 weeks. If the readings are not accepted then a deemed reading will be used and SP will have to cancel the bill and generate a new one using the industry deemed readings.

So it seems suppliers are short-circuiting validation in order to meet billing deadlines, then picking up the pieces as and when validation throws up a disparity.

Avro took my opening readings on 18/1/21 @ 22.35 but the company I left, Bulb, wouldn't allow me to put the readings into their site so I emailed them and within 4 days I had the final bill and a refund of over £800. Not a lot of energy would have been used in 90 minutes so they accepted the final readings.

masonic

wild666 said:

masonic said:

bristolleedsfan said:

I am not contradicting stated procedure merely stating that it clearly did not happen on switches that I have referred to. Scottish Power sent email on switchout date stating if I gave then a final reading ensuring that it was the same as reading I gave to new supplier ( So Energy) it would issue a final statement based on reading I give/gave, as it was I was only able to give change over reading to So Energy

SP -  Final Bill issued with credit in my Bank Account 10 actual days after switchover date, reading clearly did not go to Meter Validation third party service

So Energy created final Bill on 3rd actual day following switchout date to GNE - reading clearly did not go to Meter Validation third party service

My experience has been that SP is quick to issue a final bill, using an estimated final readings if necessary. I had little choice but to give them the actual reads I gave to my new supplier, Octopus, and hope all goes well. Meanwhile, Octopus has informed me that they can't start billing me yet as my opening readings are still being validated, that this could take 4-6 weeks. If the readings are not accepted then a deemed reading will be used and SP will have to cancel the bill and generate a new one using the industry deemed readings.

So it seems suppliers are short-circuiting validation in order to meet billing deadlines, then picking up the pieces as and when validation throws up a disparity.

Avro took my opening readings on 18/1/21 @ 22.35 but the company I left, Bulb, wouldn't allow me to put the readings into their site so I emailed them and within 4 days I had the final bill and a refund of over £800. Not a lot of energy would have been used in 90 minutes so they accepted the final readings.

Which is fine if Avro passed the opening readings to the Meter Validation Company and they were subsequently validated, because everything will match up. However, if your readings turn out to be higher than the maximum acceptable reading calculated by the MVC, then both suppliers are required to use an estimated reading provided by the MVC and your final bill from Bulb would have to be cancelled and reissued using the deemed readings. This is what I mean by short-circuiting the validation process. A "final bill" is not final until it is based on MVC validated closing readings.

The best course of action is to provide opening readings to the new supplier only, let them validate it and send it to the old supplier. Once validated, the old supplier is not at liberty to dispute it.

[Deleted User]

People lie; people do not bother, and some misread their meters. The more actual readings you provide to your supplier, the better chance you have of the actual switch readings being used. The aim of the validation process is to ensure that consumers are not charged for the same units twice. It is worth remembering that if the validated reading is, say, 50 units higher than the one that was provided the chances are that by overpaying your old supplier you have saved some money (albeit, not very much). The new supplier will only charge the DSC until the meter reading exceeds the agreed opening reading. I overpaid one supplier £70 on a switch: the actual difference in cost was £2.34.

[Deleted User]

Something occured to me when I was reading an Ofgem switching document that I had never thought of until now.

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/system/files/docs/2018/02/as_is_switching_arrangements.pdf

Namely the 3rd party Data Collector used by the energy industry for independent validation.  Am I correct in thinking that there are a number of different Ofgem accredited Data Collectors (DC) rather than a single organisation .  If that is the case perhaps this explains why different timescales are happening for different energy suppliers as they may be using different DCs.  So there appears to be a commonality of experience for those of us like myself who have recently switched to Avro and different to those who have transferred say to Neon.

Coming up to 15 working days since my switch so I'll see before the end of the week what the reason/excuse is for any further delay in my opening read validation for electricity.  The 15 days was given to me as the timeframe by Avro - it remains to be seen just how true it is.

As per masonic's post above, I have only provided my opening read to the new supplier (Avro) and declined to give them to Scottish Power citing the correct validation process.  My 'final' bill from Scottish could not have used my opening Avro electricity read as it is somewhat lower than the actual submiited to Avro.  Either that or the MVC have rejected my actual read and used a deemed read instead.  I won't be able to find that out until Avro reports an opening meter read on their system!  Getting the opening read validated is taking longer than the 21 days to switch which is a another huge flaw in the system.  

 

  

[Deleted User]

Suppliers use different data collection services; for example , Morrison’s Data Services; TMA etc. Have a look at the Octopus Blog on Opening Readings. The validation process is quite complex. My understanding is that for smart meters registered with the DCC, the DCC will act in the Data Collector role.

[Deleted User]

Dolor said:

Suppliers use different data collection services; for example , Morrison’s Data Services; TMA etc. Have a look at the Octopus Blog on Opening Readings. The validation process is quite complex. My understanding is that for smart meters registered with the DCC, the DCC will act in the Data Collector role.

As I thought.  So the whole system of meter validation hangs on the efficiency or otherwise of these individual firms that provide the services listed (in firms like TMA).   We know that energy suppliers have varying degrees of efficiency so when you add in these Data Collection firms, it is no wonder the system is prone to delays and male hen-ups. 

Tallerdave

The system is fundamentally flawed in that it takes no account of changes of occupants and their differing power consumption profiles. So if you're unfortunate enough to move in to a place where the previous occupant was running a cannabis farm and mining bitcoin, you'll have a battle with the supplier wanting to set you up on a ludicrously high DDR and querying every meter read thereafter.

Whilst my example is somewhat flippant, I've experienced a real-life example where previous tenants had obviously used the immersion heater for hot water and used extra electric heaters rather than use the gas boiler.

Phones4Chris

DerwentMailman said:

Dolor said:

Suppliers use different data collection services; for example , Morrison’s Data Services; TMA etc. Have a look at the Octopus Blog on Opening Readings. The validation process is quite complex. My understanding is that for smart meters registered with the DCC, the DCC will act in the Data Collector role.

As I thought.  So the whole system of meter validation hangs on the efficiency or otherwise of these individual firms that provide the services listed (in firms like TMA).   We know that energy suppliers have varying degrees of efficiency so when you add in these Data Collection firms, it is no wonder the system is prone to delays and male hen-ups. 

It certainly seems that way. It's going to be interesting to see what happens in my situation - to save repeating it, latest here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/78101070/#Comment_78101070

Phones4Chris

Tallerdave said:

The system is fundamentally flawed in that it takes no account of changes of occupants and their differing power consumption profiles. So if you're unfortunate enough to move in to a place where the previous occupant was running a cannabis farm and mining bitcoin, you'll have a battle with the supplier wanting to set you up on a ludicrously high DDR and querying every meter read thereafter.

Whilst my example is somewhat flippant, I've experienced a real-life example where previous tenants had obviously used the immersion heater for hot water and used extra electric heaters rather than use the gas boiler.

Flippant it may be but very relevant! And no doubt the whole business won't be helped by any supplier quoting an OFGEM "typical domestic consumption value" on the billing paperwork, as it could mislead the uninformed!

bristolleedsfan

rjmachin said:

I am in the process of switching supplier from Avro to Octopus.

Octopus have advised that the switch will complete on the 2nd March and they will send me an email to submit meter readings on the 25th February (although I can submit them any time before 7th March)

Is it normal to ask for reading between a week either side of the switch date?

When I previously switched in 2017 (Avro has been cheapest ever since until now for me) from Sainsburys to Avro, I submitted meter reading on the day of the switch and all seemed to work out well with no issues.

When do you normally provide meter readings when switching?

My tariff with Avro is fixed until 8th March

"It's best to give final readings on the switch date."

Octopus Energy on Twitter: " Hi ...., we're excited to welcome you aboard! It's best to give final readings on the switch date. The readings will be independently checked to make sure you never pay for the same power twice. Our blog details this process if you're interested 👍🐙 https://t.co/E22GE8f9hw" / Twitter