Help... Probate gone wrong? I think?!?

p00hsticks

Thrugelmir said:

bpj said:

brianposter said:

ic said:

brianposter said:

Ask for a copy of both wills and draw up a contract accordingly ?

Can't buy the house without probate, and won't have the probate until the wills validity has been sorted.

I have twice bought houses in a foreign country before probate was granted. It was simply a matter of drawing up an appropriate contract. The last one was by drawing up a rent to buy contract with all the beneficiaries, the previous one with an entirely different arrangement which was accepted by the mortgage company.

The point here is that the beneficiaries have not been determined, so who is signing the contract?

Who ever has been nominated as being the executors of the estate.  Beneficiaries aren't always executors. 

But if there is the possibility fo a later will, then it's not necessarily even going to be clear who the executors are, let alone the beneficiaries....

brianposter

bpj said:

The point here is that the beneficiaries have not been determined, so who is signing the contract?

If you can see the wills it would normally be quite obvious who the potential beneficiaries are, and the fact that you might end up with superfluous signatories on a contract does not affect its validity.

Thrugelmir

p00hsticks said:

Thrugelmir said:

bpj said:

brianposter said:

ic said:

brianposter said:

Ask for a copy of both wills and draw up a contract accordingly ?

Can't buy the house without probate, and won't have the probate until the wills validity has been sorted.

I have twice bought houses in a foreign country before probate was granted. It was simply a matter of drawing up an appropriate contract. The last one was by drawing up a rent to buy contract with all the beneficiaries, the previous one with an entirely different arrangement which was accepted by the mortgage company.

The point here is that the beneficiaries have not been determined, so who is signing the contract?

Who ever has been nominated as being the executors of the estate.  Beneficiaries aren't always executors. 

But if there is the possibility fo a later will, then it's not necessarily even going to be clear who the executors are, let alone the beneficiaries....

The purpose of the will is in part to name and nominate executors. 

getmore4less

Most wills these days the beneficiaries don't even need to be consulted as the default and often explicit is the executors become the trustees and have total control.

polite to discuss with the beneficiaries what they want to happen and agree a price but can be overruled(ignored) or give them an option to make a better offer themselves if they think it is worth more.

p00hsticks

Thrugelmir said:

p00hsticks said:

Thrugelmir said:

bpj said:

brianposter said:

ic said:

brianposter said:

Ask for a copy of both wills and draw up a contract accordingly ?

Can't buy the house without probate, and won't have the probate until the wills validity has been sorted.

I have twice bought houses in a foreign country before probate was granted. It was simply a matter of drawing up an appropriate contract. The last one was by drawing up a rent to buy contract with all the beneficiaries, the previous one with an entirely different arrangement which was accepted by the mortgage company.

The point here is that the beneficiaries have not been determined, so who is signing the contract?

Who ever has been nominated as being the executors of the estate.  Beneficiaries aren't always executors. 

But if there is the possibility fo a later will, then it's not necessarily even going to be clear who the executors are, let alone the beneficiaries....

The purpose of the will is in part to name and nominate executors. 

I'm aware of that - but the OP originally said that probate was being held up because someone has now suggested that there may be a later will in existence than that submitted for probate. It's not clear to me if that will has actually been located yet - if it hasn't then until it has surely there's the possibility that the excutors of the earlier will who have submitted the probate request (and are presumably dealing with he house sale) are not the same as those on the later will and so have no authority to proceed.

What happens if a later valid will turns up before (or after ?) probate has been finalised ?

Annisele

p00hsticks said:

What happens if a later valid will turns up before (or after ?) probate has been finalised ?

Before is easy - probate will be finalised with the later valid will. After is messy (as Lloyds found in 2019 after it discovered a few thousand previously misplaced wills in its 'safe custody'). But from the purchaser's point of view, if they bought one of the estate's assets in good faith then they'll get to keep it.

Minx1986

getmore4less said:

This will a waiting game,
I would start the process of looking for another property just in case if you need to be progressing with your move.

The probate application has stalled because someone is claiming there a new will.
if they have it and it is legal and there is no dispute over that, like made with undue influence or lacking capacity then that should be fairly straight forward as the capital return for IHT should be very similar if not the same unless it highlights some new assets that need including in the inventory
.
May need adjustments to the PA1 form if executors have been changed but that is simple change.

Does however need cooperation by the parties involved to progress smoothly

The content and beneficiary list is not part of the application process but could impact the sale if someone new involved wants the house.

It is possible to proceed to exchange of contracts before probate with the necessary extra clauses but rarely recommended.
(the grant would be needed for completion)

This all assumes the property was solely owned by the deceased  and not jointly owned or party in trust (with trustees named as legal owners) as a grant would not be required to proceed with the sale. 

For the sake of £3  might be worth checking the land registry if not all ready done as many still think you need probate for tenant in common ownership when one parties dies.

I think this is part of the problem. The house is in the name of the deceased husband and wife, and a daughter (as trust, is this the tenant in comment part which all seemed OK... But we questioned the land registry title as the a significant part of the garden, a 1/3rd, was missing (purchased from the neighbour)... This part is still in only the deceased names... So they applied for probate to include this in our sale... This is now where its all gone wrong... 

I've spent the whole weekend so far stressed, not sleeping, being sick with worry now, and just don't know what to do. With a 15m old baby I can't even figure out if we need to look at renting, if we want to persue this property so we don't lose our buyer... Or if we need to cut our losses and look at other properties... Except there is nothing in a 15mile radius that even comes close to this. 

If the first part with the house is OK... I had wondered if we could proceed without the garden, and let them resolve that and purchase at a later date... 

Or does the probate query now mean the whole estate will come under question if a new will exists... 

kazwookie

I think you are putting up with too much stress, I would be walking away and looking at other property.

This 'could' take years to sort out

brianposter

kazwookie said:

This 'could' take years to sort out

It could take years but the OP looks set to be able to wait a few years once they are in the house.

They need to get on the phone to the vendor of their choice - probably the executor of the first will - and obtain the full story. Sunday is as good a day as any to get started.

getmore4less

Minx1986 said:

getmore4less said:

This will a waiting game,
I would start the process of looking for another property just in case if you need to be progressing with your move.

The probate application has stalled because someone is claiming there a new will.
if they have it and it is legal and there is no dispute over that, like made with undue influence or lacking capacity then that should be fairly straight forward as the capital return for IHT should be very similar if not the same unless it highlights some new assets that need including in the inventory
.
May need adjustments to the PA1 form if executors have been changed but that is simple change.

Does however need cooperation by the parties involved to progress smoothly

The content and beneficiary list is not part of the application process but could impact the sale if someone new involved wants the house.

It is possible to proceed to exchange of contracts before probate with the necessary extra clauses but rarely recommended.
(the grant would be needed for completion)

This all assumes the property was solely owned by the deceased  and not jointly owned or party in trust (with trustees named as legal owners) as a grant would not be required to proceed with the sale. 

For the sake of £3  might be worth checking the land registry if not all ready done as many still think you need probate for tenant in common ownership when one parties dies.

I think this is part of the problem. The house is in the name of the deceased husband and wife, and a daughter (as trust, is this the tenant in comment part which all seemed OK... But we questioned the land registry title as the a significant part of the garden, a 1/3rd, was missing (purchased from the neighbour)... This part is still in only the deceased names... So they applied for probate to include this in our sale... This is now where its all gone wrong... 

I've spent the whole weekend so far stressed, not sleeping, being sick with worry now, and just don't know what to do. With a 15m old baby I can't even figure out if we need to look at renting, if we want to persue this property so we don't lose our buyer... Or if we need to cut our losses and look at other properties... Except there is nothing in a 15mile radius that even comes close to this. 

If the first part with the house is OK... I had wondered if we could proceed without the garden, and let them resolve that and purchase at a later date... 

Or does the probate query now mean the whole estate will come under question if a new will exists... 

That should potentially be an option as it does not need probate.
Buy the house from the current living legal owner and it is for them to resolve the beneficial interests of the proceeds.

Buy the rest of the garden later. 

Can you structure your finances to manage a cash purchase of the land later?
if you need a mortgage to cover both bits that could be an issue