0% Balance transfer cancelled

dpclark

Hi, my wife has just had her 0% balance transfer rate cancelled in bizarre circumstances and I wondered if anyone had any advice.

She had switched her existing debt to a Fluid card with six months 0%APR on balance transfers and set up a direct debit to cover the six payments. The first direct debit went out fine but the second one didn't despite her having the money in her account. Between the first and second payment she switched from one type of Nationwide current account to another and as a result her sort code/account number changed. The bank moved all her direct debits across.

Nationwide said Fluid never tried to take the second payment. Fluid claim Nationwide informed them that the direct debit was cancelled, where as NW say they merely gave them the new details to update. The end result of this is Fluid cancelling the 0% rate and refusing to accept any responsibility - which this early in the transfer is going to prove very expensive.

Is there anything that can be done? TIA

[Deleted User]

Complain to both of them and then the FOS, the switch service should be completed and DD setup properly when completed - did the DD date fall during the switch process meaning second wasn't taken?

dpclark

Deleted_User said:

Complain to both of them and then the FOS, the switch service should be completed and DD setup properly when completed - did the DD date fall during the switch process meaning second wasn't taken?

Thanks Farfetch. The DD date was three days after the new account was opened and asked to move DDs across, although both accounts were left open (with funds in) as we thought that would prevent exactly this kind of thing happening. The Fluid DD shows on a list of payees on new account, so their claim it was cancelled seems ridiculous.

2021BJ

dpclark said:

Deleted_User said:

Complain to both of them and then the FOS, the switch service should be completed and DD setup properly when completed - did the DD date fall during the switch process meaning second wasn't taken?

Thanks Farfetch. The DD date was three days after the new account was opened and asked to move DDs across, although both accounts were left open (with funds in) as we thought that would prevent exactly this kind of thing happening. The Fluid DD shows on a list of payees on new account, so their claim it was cancelled seems ridiculous.

As far as I'm aware you can't use CASS for an internal bank to bank "switch" so this would all be done manually.

Presumably, as the DD was moved across, Fluid would need to claim against the new account details to successfully debit the account as the old account would no longer have my active mandates.  I'm guessing that is what Fluid are referring to when they said they were told the DD was cancelled, they claimed against the old account details and it was rejected.  Fluid would not have had anywhere near enough time to alter the DD details in the timescales provided.

I think NW should really have told you to make payments yourself manually in the interim if this was not a managed switch.  I don't think Fluid have done anything wrong here although perhaps as a GOGW they could be persuaded to reinstate the 0% deal?

HampshireH

Did you just open a new account then rather than switch? In that you had one, opened another, moved stuff over but retained the first.

If so the switching process/guarentee won't apply.

dpclark

HampshireH said:

Did you just open a new account then rather than switch? In that you had one, opened another, moved stuff over but retained the first.

If so the switching process/guarentee won't apply.

I guess so, she was on NW's basic account and upgraded to one of the better current accounts. She rang NW to ask them to move direct debits across but there was no suggestion this would cause any issues. 

dpclark

2021BJ said:

dpclark said:

Deleted_User said:

Complain to both of them and then the FOS, the switch service should be completed and DD setup properly when completed - did the DD date fall during the switch process meaning second wasn't taken?

Thanks Farfetch. The DD date was three days after the new account was opened and asked to move DDs across, although both accounts were left open (with funds in) as we thought that would prevent exactly this kind of thing happening. The Fluid DD shows on a list of payees on new account, so their claim it was cancelled seems ridiculous.

As far as I'm aware you can't use CASS for an internal bank to bank "switch" so this would all be done manually.

Presumably, as the DD was moved across, Fluid would need to claim against the new account details to successfully debit the account as the old account would no longer have my active mandates.  I'm guessing that is what Fluid are referring to when they said they were told the DD was cancelled, they claimed against the old account details and it was rejected.  Fluid would not have had anywhere near enough time to alter the DD details in the timescales provided.

I think NW should really have told you to make payments yourself manually in the interim if this was not a managed switch.  I don't think Fluid have done anything wrong here although perhaps as a GOGW they could be persuaded to reinstate the 0% deal?

Thanks - I see your point. NW did not advise when my wife rang them to discuss DDs moving to new account that there would be any issues in the coming days. We assumed that by leaving money in both accounts there would be a point where they would move across without issue (i.e money would continue to go out of the old account until the new account had all the DDs set up)

phillw

dpclark said:
Thanks Farfetch. The DD date was three days after the new account was opened and asked to move DDs across, although both accounts were left open (with funds in) as we thought that would prevent exactly this kind of thing happening. The Fluid DD shows on a list of payees on new account, so their claim it was cancelled seems ridiculous.

Direct Debits are generated something like 5 days before they are taken, so if the old account was closed or the bank advised them of new details within that time then you are running the risk of an issue. If you switch regularly for bonus' etc then you quickly learn to move your DD to a point in the month where there is an open window where you can switch without risk.

MrFrugalFever

I’m afraid from what you have described it would appear that the only thing you could do is plead with Fluid for a GOGW as mentioned above. If your wife sends the information across to fluid (statement from account of day dd was due to come out showing money in the account, details and dates of account change etc). Remember a direct debit is an authorised payment collection instruction - the consumer is giving the company authorisation to request money from their bank account by providing the necessary bank details to do so. If NW or your wife hasn’t updated these with Fluid AT LEAST 5 days prior to usual dd pay date it would have been declared as ‘cancelled’.

2021BJ

phillw said:

dpclark said:
Thanks Farfetch. The DD date was three days after the new account was opened and asked to move DDs across, although both accounts were left open (with funds in) as we thought that would prevent exactly this kind of thing happening. The Fluid DD shows on a list of payees on new account, so their claim it was cancelled seems ridiculous.

Direct Debits are generated something like 5 days before they are taken, so if the old account was closed or the bank advised them of new details within that time then you are running the risk of an issue. If you switch regularly for bonus' etc then you quickly learn to move your DD to a point in the month where there is an open window where you can switch without risk.

If the switch is done using CASS then it's not a problem.  Obviously it appears that as this was an internal switch then CASS would not be used and the mechanism to redirect direct debits that CASS uses presumably isn't used for internal transfers.

pbartlett

For me, this it totally Nationwide's fault. This kind of internal switching must have happened hundreds of thousands of times during the years they have been in business. It is not rocket science. They switched the DDs across, they should know it was a valid DD request when it came in. If their internal systems cannot handle it then they need new systems. I would complain and quantify your loss to them.