Care home fees

Dave215

My Dad is having to move in to a care home due to having increased levels of dementia.  He currently has carers come to his house but he really needs 24 hour care.
Wow they seem expensive. Looking on the internet it seems to claim average costs are £560 a week in Yorkshire but we haven't found them to be close to that. Four homes near us have quoted £1000 a week, and one at £1500. We then found one we liked (only half a mile from my house which is good, I know someone who works there and my wife's grandad stayed there at one point). They did say £1000 but then came back to us after his assessment, said they'd made a mistake, it should be 1300 but they'd discount to £1200.
Are they all this expensive? Where are these cheaper ones?
It doesn't seem to look much different to other care homes I've seen (I've done enough work inside dozens of them).
He has some savings (£25k ish), his own house and a smaller house that is rented out. Obviously we can sell his house and eventually his rented house but I calculated with his £700-800 shortfall a week he'll have run out of money in 5-6 years.
What if he cant sell his house quick enough?
 What happens when he completely runs out?
Will the council pay that much? 
Would they move him 20 miles away to one of these elusive £550 a week homes.

Pollycat

You might find this link helpful.

It explains how care is funded.

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/

You may also find information on your county council website.

With £25k of savings and 2 houses, your Dad will be self funding for a while.

What involvement have you had with Adult Social Care?

They originally arranged home care for my Mum and when she was unable to cope in her own home, they suggested a couple of care homes that were council owned.

Be aware that if/when your Dad's capital falls below the self funding limit (£23,250) and the care home he is in is more expensive than the Council will part fund/fund, you may need to pay a top-up fee.

That is explained in the leaflet.

Stubod

Around £1000+ per week would be about right for a basic care home, nursing homes are more expensive as they offer more "medical" support. Our dad was in a council run nursing home 5 years ago for the last couple of years of his life, and I seem to think they charged about £800 per week. Initially he got fully funded due to his health needs, but after his second assessment he was re-assessed and had to pay. There are some allowances you can get, and these with his pension meant we only had to fund the gap which was about half the amount. When the money runs out the council will be responsible for paying, in which case they will be obliged to find the lowest cost care home available to them. (I think the patient can retain around £16k of their own money as "savings")...

Pollycat

Stubod said:

Around £1000+ per week would be about right. Our dad was in a council run one 5m years ago for the last couple of years of his life, and I seem to think they charged about £800 per week. Initially he got fully funded due to health needs, but after his second assessment he was "re graded" and had to pay. There are some allowances you can get, and these with his pension meant we only had to fund the gap which was about half the amount. When the money runs out the council will be responsible for paying, in which case they will be obliged to find the lowest cost care home available to them. (I think the patient can retain around £16k of their own money as "savings")...

Fully funded until savings/capital falls below £23,250.

Then shared funding until savings/capital falls below £14,250.

This Age UK leaflet - mentioned in the link I gave above - goes into more detail:

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/globalassets/age-uk/documents/factsheets/fs10_paying_for_permanent_residential_care_fcs.pdf

It also covers benefits.

And gives lots of explanatory examples.

The 'fully funded due to health needs' refers to CHC Continuing Health Care explained here:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/

I understand it is very hard to get agreed - but that not through personal experience.

Dave215

I read the leaflet that you attached before. That's the one that says average care costs in residential care in Yorkshire are £570 a week (no idea where they get that from). It says that he will obviously have to pay until he runs out and then the council may step in.
What it doesn't say, and I can't find anywhere else that seems to touch on this, is how much councils will pay (will they only pay a few hundred a week and expect him to move somewhere cheaper).  Also, what happens when his initial cash runs out (will probably be on zero in 6 months) if he still hasn't sold his house.

Stubod

I would be amazed if you can find a care home for £570, and if that says "average", then some must be lower!!...no way!!

If he needs care and has no assets then the council are obliged to pay but will obviously use the lowest cost option available.

If they have an asset (house) unsold, then the council will pay and put a charge against the house until it is sold..

LHW99

Don't forget that his savings will only be needed to top up his existing income (state pension, any occupational pension, attendance allowance, rent from the property), so won't be run down at a rate of £1000+ per week.

There are two levels of attendance allowance, and if your dad cannot be cared for at home any more, then he probably should be getting the higher rate - worth checking.

Pollycat

Dave215 said:

I read the leaflet that you attached before. That's the one that says average care costs in residential care in Yorkshire are £570 a week (no idea where they get that from). It says that he will obviously have to pay until he runs out and then the council may step in.
What it doesn't say, and I can't find anywhere else that seems to touch on this, is how much councils will pay (will they only pay a few hundred a week and expect him to move somewhere cheaper).  Also, what happens when his initial cash runs out (will probably be on zero in 6 months) if he still hasn't sold his house.

Have you read all contents of both leaflets?

With savings of £25k and 2 houses, the council will not pay anything.

Not until his savings drop below £23,250.

Have you spoken to Adult Social Care at all?

Have you asked them about homes that will be under the limit they will pay once your Dad stops being self-funding?

As explained by another poster, if your Dad's houses have not been sold, the county council will fund his care initially (with your Dad's income taken into account and offset against the weekly fee) but will expect payment when finds are available i.e. the house/houses have been sold.

When my Dad went into residential care as a self-funder, he did not have access to the capital he held jointly with my Mum - it was in a fixed term bond.

The council assessed my Dad's income - state pension, occupational pension, DLA, Pension credit (IIRC) - and said how much he needed to pay to make up the difference but they paid it and when Dad died a few months later, they invoiced us for the amount Dad should have paid.

Be aware that any pensions your Dad may receive will go towards funding his care home fees.

Plus some benefits.

So by the time that was added up, the amount my Dad had to actually pay as a self-funder was nowhere near the weekly amount quoted for care.

This was all worked out by a financial assessor from our county council as part of the Adult Social Care referral.

The care home my Mum is in in council owned and the weekly cost is under the amount the council will pay so there was no risk of her having to move when she stopped being part funding i.e. her capital dropped below £14250.

It sounds like this is the sort of place you are looking for.