Letting agent is pursuing me for guarantee on a new tenancy agreement

HampshireH

stuptelf said:

531063 said:

^^^^^ as above, but if your son owes the rent why not pay 

If they'd told me about the problems getting money out of him during his first tenancy rather than giving him another one and then still saying nothing until he'd gone into arrears before demanding money off me I'd have been able to advise him not to take out the second tenancy and tied up all the loose ends tidily. He's not well. He's struggled with uni during lockdown and failed the year. The uni wouldn't let him retake the year, he has no reason to be where he is getting himself into bother. He spent most of November, December and January in hospital with bacterial pneumonia and an infected heart valve (he had a valve replacement as a baby) and the agent has no interest in the effect of this on his health. They've been irresponsible in letting it get out of control and entering into an agreement with someone who is an unreliable payer with the expectation that it doesn't matter because someone else will pay. I feel for the landlord and I've been trying to help my son access benefits while he's unable to work to pay his rent but they don't care. They're saying the house is only for students and as he's not a student any more they're going to evict him. They've acted in bad faith in my opinion and let down everyone involved unnecessarily.

He will also be liable for council tax if he is no longer s student. I know that's not what you want to hear but if the LL is annoyed then and there is any chance he hasn't declared this he could find a big bill on his hands for that too

dimbo61

I am sorry your son has struggled with his health and metal health over the last 12 months and it's been really tough for many students and people on furlough, out of work and isolating.
However the LL/LA  did not know your son's medical history or mental health when he signed up to rent a property.
Why did he sign up for a second year if he failed the first year?
However the Guarantor form is a joke as it's not signed as a deed with a witness to your signature.
You weren't sent a copy of the tenancy agreement and the LL is between the devil and the deep blue sea.
Students don't pay council tax while your son is no longer a student so liable to pay CT.
He could claim Housing benefit if living in the property but this takes months to get sorted.
Did he sign a joint and several with the other students in the house.
Did they all pay deposits ?
Many of the 2 million Landlords are struggling with rent arrears. Most LL,s only own 1 property.
Tough times ahead

stuptelf

No, they didn't know about how health until after the event. Since finding out they have no interest. I don't know why he took on the second tenancy, our relationship has been strained since I met someone new after his mum died and he doesn't talk to people at the best of times. He probably hoped the answer to his problems would materialise out of thin air as youngsters do. It's a joint and several tenancy I think. I know he's going to be liable for council tax as well, they'll unfortunately have to wait for him to get some money as well.

macman

If this is a joint tenancy and not an HMO, then his non-student status renders the whole property liable for Council Tax. So, both the LL and the other tenants will want him removed ASAP.

AdrianC

stuptelf said:
If they'd told me about the problems getting money out of him during his first tenancy rather than giving him another one and then still saying nothing until he'd gone into arrears before demanding money off me I'd have been able to advise him not to take out the second tenancy and tied up all the loose ends tidily. He's not well. He's struggled with uni during lockdown and failed the year. The uni wouldn't let him retake the year, he has no reason to be where he is getting himself into bother. He spent most of November, December and January in hospital with bacterial pneumonia and an infected heart valve (he had a valve replacement as a baby) and the agent has no interest in the effect of this on his health. They've been irresponsible in letting it get out of control and entering into an agreement with someone who is an unreliable payer with the expectation that it doesn't matter because someone else will pay. I feel for the landlord and I've been trying to help my son access benefits while he's unable to work to pay his rent but they don't care. They're saying the house is only for students and as he's not a student any more they're going to evict him. They've acted in bad faith in my opinion and let down everyone involved unnecessarily.

I don't necessarily agree the landlord and/or his agent (on his behalf) have done anything wrong.

They have no compulsion to talk to you during his tenancy - indeed, doing so could be viewed as illegal, a breach of GDPR. Your role as guarantor is simple, to cover the debts incurred during his tenancy. No more, no less.

As for his educational and health situation - again, that's not the landlord/agent's problem.
An adult signed a contract. There is no suggestion he did not have legal capacity to do so. It is a purely commercial relationship.
You agreed to underwrite that commercial relationship.
You are now being asked to stand by your commitment.
You can't put the landlord in loco parentis.

If you're guaranteeing somebody's tenancy, you need to know them pretty damn well... and you need to TRUST them. And if they've got any personal responsibility about them, then it's up to them to talk to you about their financial situation.

Whether the guarantee is legally binding is, ultimately, a question for the courts. It looks shonky, and there's a question mark over the continuation to the second tenancy. But the intention seems clear. The landlord will be taking you, as guarantor, to court. If the figure is <£10k, it will be a small claim. If you lose, then you will need to pay within 28 days or have a CCJ on your financial record.

AdrianC

And if it's a joint and several tenancy, then you're guarantor for the debts of EVERY tenant... just as any other guarantor is guarantor for your son, too.

greatcrested

AdrianC said:

And if it's a joint and several tenancy, then you're guarantor for the debts of EVERY tenant... just as any other guarantor is guarantor for your son, too.

Probably - though does depend on exact wording.

edit: just looked back at the 'letter of guarantee' which relates specifically to 'the tenancy' - which you now say is 'joint and several' with the other occupants. Therefore

1) yes, you have guaranteed debts etc for all the joint tenants, not just your son

2) But I fail now to understand how his moving to a smaller room, at a lower rent, is in any way the business of the landlord/agent. Nor why a new tenancy was needed.

In a joint and several tenancy, all the joint tenants are equally responsible for the full rent for the house. How the divvy up the contibutions they each make, and how they decide who gets which room, is between themselves - nothing to do with the LL. They have between them rented a house.

So

3) if the landlord gave him a new tenancy, allocating him a smaller/cheaper room, then he cannot have a joint tenancy. It must be a sole tenancy, in his name alone. for that particular room.

4) or if there is indeed a (new) joint tenancy, then the various occupants/joint tenants must have agreed between themselves for him to get a smaller room and contribute less towards the full rent.

You have, I'm afraid, many gaps in your understanding of what is going on, which makes advising you very hard!

A_Lert

Time to seek legal advice yourself I think.

Unfortunately the landlord is under no obligation to not let rent arrears build up before doing anything about it.

The grounds are likely to be that the guarantee was never valid, and if it was valid it's not any more because it's a new tenancy. After all, suppose your son had signed a new tenancy charging ten times the previous rent. It would be clearly unconscionable for you be held liable for that.

stuptelf

I will check the tenancy agreement and see if it's joint and several. I may be wrong.

When my son signed this new tenancy agreement he committed to a new fixed term with a minimum amount of payments. I signed a guarantee for a 12 month tenancy after which time it would become periodic. At the end of that first tenancy his liability was rent for a notice period and mine was the same or until I terminated the guarantee. Signing the new tenancy created a new 12 month obligation for him which they want to extend to me despite me having no knowledge of the new tenancy. Is that the crux of the argument?

The letting agent was happy to contact me when they were asking him for some paperwork and he wasn't answering messages but not to tell me that they were having problems getting rent on time or to ask for a new guarantee.

stuptelf

Yes, it's a joint and several tenancy and the tenancy agreement specifies the room each tenant is renting.