Renovating a house - new heating system

Bevarama

Hello all,
We have just purchased a bit of a project house and we are just sizing up the relative costs of different heating systems and just wondered what the consensus would be regarding which people would think would be the cheapest involved:
Current situation
The house size is 50m2 over two floors. It is on a residential cul-de-sac. It has a coal-fired boiler (?!) and isn't connected to the gas mains. Nothing has been changed, bar cosmetic changes, since the previous owners (since passed) bought the property from new in 1969. Therefore the downstairs will be completely reconfigured to open up the space etc, with new flooring and the works. 

We are contemplating two options, both involve replacing the coal-fired boiler.
Option 1:
Don't connect to the gas mains and instead install underfloor heating throughout the house (probably electric) and just live without central heating. Install an electric water boiler in order to supply hot water when necessary.
Pros: Don't need to pay to be connected to the gas mains. I have heard it can be more efficient because you can individually program the right heat for each individual space.
Cons: Installation of underfloor heating is expensive. Cannot find reliable information about the relative costs compared to central heating.
Option 2:
Connect it to the gas mains (have a rough estimate of £2000 installation cost) and then get a new central heating system plumbed in throughout the house, including new piping and radiators.
Pros: It's what we know and is traditional.
Cons: The installation of gas and a new system will be expensive and might cost more per day to use than option 1.

What are people's thoughts?

Thanks
Bev

Hasbeen

Option 1 is a horror story in the making. Electric rates per kWh are probably up 5 times more expensive than gas.

Do not have the figures but someone will give you exact costs.

Option 2 running costs will be very substantially less than option 1

Have a look at some of the threads here on electric heating!   :'(

Only cheapskate Landlord's / builders put in all electric. If you can get gas then get it!

Compare Gas and Electricity Prices per kWh | UKPower

niktheguru

Gas all day long. Will help add value to the house. Cheaper to run in general.

Mickey666

Surprised at the estimated £2000 cost for a gas connection.  Where did this come from?  I got connected for less than £500 and £200 of that was me digging my own trench once the gas company had brought the pipe to the edge of my land.

Cardew

Why would Option 1 be possibly cheaper than Gas CH?

 You state 'install underfloor heating throughout the house (probably electric) and just live without central heating.' If you don't have central heating what else would power the underfloor heating other than electric?

As the others have said - gas every time!

Bevarama

Woah woah, everyone jumping on here and making lots of assumptions.

Yes, gas is more expensive per kWh, but how much kWh does it take to heat a space using Gas CH compared to underfloor heating (UFH)? The price of gas and electric is only half the equation. Yes, 1kWh of electric is 5x the cost of 1kWh of Gas, but how many kWh does UFH use to achieve the same heat level as gas central heating? I am just trying to get a good grip of the numbers as it is likely to be place we live in for the next 20years, I want to get the most efficient system in the long run and not shell out on huge upfront costs blindly.

@Mickey666 - A builder friend quoted that as the cost of connecting it to the mains, based on previous experience in the area. He said it would involve paying the utility company to dig up&repair the road/pavement, the cost of materials, and then the costs of plumbing the supply to the part of the house where the boiler is located.

Hasbeen

Bevarama said:

Woah woah, everyone jumping on here and making lots of assumptions.

Yes, gas is more expensive per kWh, but how much kWh does it take to heat a space using Gas CH compared to underfloor heating (UFH)? The price of gas and electric is only half the equation. Yes, 1kWh of electric is 5x the cost of 1kWh of Gas, but how many kWh does UFH use to achieve the same heat level as gas central heating? I am just trying to get a good grip of the numbers as it is likely to be place we live in for the next 20years, I want to get the most efficient system in the long run and not shell out on huge upfront costs blindly.

@Mickey666 - A builder friend quoted that as the cost of connecting it to the mains, based on previous experience in the area. He said it would involve paying the utility company to dig up&repair the road/pavement, the cost of materials, and then the costs of plumbing the supply to the part of the house where the boiler is located.

Have you read the posts? A kWh is a kWh.

Do not see anyone here making assumptions?

You asked a question/advice and received it. 

matelodave

1kwh from electricity will produce exactly 1 kwh or heat, no more no less and will cost you around 14-15p, 1 kwh from a gas boiler which is around 95% efficient will provide you with 0.95kwh of heat (ie slightly less but not really enough to worry about) however that 0.95kwh of heat will only cost you 3p or less.
Likewise if a room needs 20kwh of heat to heat it during the time you are in there, it doesn't matter whether that comes from undrfloor, radiators or even candles but it will still need 20kwh. the only advantage of underfloor heating is that it's more evenly spread around the room. So the cost difference could be between 60p for gas and £2.80 for leccy a day (and thats just for one room)

You really do need to do your sums, because listening to a mate who's a builder could cost you an arm and leg over the next 20 years

BUFF

just to throw another option at you - Green Homes Grant for an Air Source Heat Pump? It won't be the cheapest now but over the long term it may work out as the cheapest.
If the house was built in 1969 hopefully you will be bringing the insulation etc. up to date. 

Bevarama

Hasbeen said:

Bevarama said:

Woah woah, everyone jumping on here and making lots of assumptions.

Yes, gas is more expensive per kWh, but how much kWh does it take to heat a space using Gas CH compared to underfloor heating (UFH)? The price of gas and electric is only half the equation. Yes, 1kWh of electric is 5x the cost of 1kWh of Gas, but how many kWh does UFH use to achieve the same heat level as gas central heating? I am just trying to get a good grip of the numbers as it is likely to be place we live in for the next 20years, I want to get the most efficient system in the long run and not shell out on huge upfront costs blindly.

@Mickey666 - A builder friend quoted that as the cost of connecting it to the mains, based on previous experience in the area. He said it would involve paying the utility company to dig up&repair the road/pavement, the cost of materials, and then the costs of plumbing the supply to the part of the house where the boiler is located.

Have you read the posts? A kWh is a kWh.

Do not see anyone here making assumptions?

You asked a question/advice and received it. 

I did ask for advice indeed, my comment is more about the tone in which people use to convey their information. Some people's response can come across a bit condscending, especially if it is coupled with only a partial answer or not an answer at all.

For example, I don't need someone to tell me a kWh is a kWh, that just states the obvious, and doesn't address the question; which is, generally how many kWh's of electricity are used in UFH for keeping the house a certain temperature, compared to the number of kWh's needed for the same effect with Gas CH. Its a question about efficiency.

Your answer is like: "Me: this car runs on petrol and that car runs on petrol, but which is the most efficient" and your response being "You: well a litre of petrol is a litre of petrol", "Me:.."

Bevarama

matelodave said:

1kwh from electricity will produce exactly 1 kwh or heat, no more no less and will cost you around 14-15p, 1 kwh from a gas boiler which is around 95% efficient will provide you with 0.95kwh of heat (ie slightly less but not really enough to worry about) however that 0.95kwh of heat will only cost you 3p or less.
Likewise if a room needs 20kwh of heat to heat it during the time you are in there, it doesn't matter whether that comes from undrfloor, radiators or even candles but it will still need 20kwh. the only advantage of underfloor heating is that it's more evenly spread around the room. So the cost difference could be between 60p for gas and £2.80 for leccy a day (and thats just for one room)

You really do need to do your sums, because listening to a mate who's a builder could cost you an arm and leg over the next 20 years

That is helpful, your comment about the comparative efficiency is exactly what I was looking for. Is that 95% conversion related to the initial energy converted when the gas is burnt or does it relate to the amount energy released when it has travelled through the plumbing and through the radiator. Off the top of my head, I would have thought more energy would be lost during the transfer of heat through the system.

Doing my sums is why I am posting here to gather more information and have accurate sums; I don't think it is unwise to listen to a friend who has experience doing the sort of work being talked of and every job has its own set of circumstances.