Court Letter from Excel Parking!!

KB8809

Newbie here! 

Please let me know if I am posting in wrong area!

Hi I am looking for advice in regards to a County Court claim received against me from Excel Parking Services.

I work for the NHS and had a lease car in 2017. I was parked in a car park at the local leisure park which allows free parking for 4 hours to use any of the facilities on site which there are hairdressers, cinemas, McDonald’s, Pizza Hut etc. I had taken my children to the cinema there and left my car at approx 11:30am, I came back to a PCN stating I was observed leaving the premises at 12:30 (1 hour after I actually left) my car was within the 4 hours free parking time frame therefore should not of had any sort of PCN. I asked the company to provide me with images/CCTV of their claim of me ‘observed leaving the site’ I received images of my car only. I emailed back to state this does not prove their claim of me being observed leaving the site. I have had no further evidence from them. I have defended the claim of £185 and received a directions questionnaire to which I am planning on stating NO for mediation as I just can not pay for something I know is wrong! Am I doing the right thing? What information do I need to send in defence? Stupidly I binned my receipts of cinema at the time and paid cash. Who keeps this kind of stuff? So it’s basically their word against mine! 

Le_Kirk

If you have received a DQ you must have already submitted a defence.  Did you perhaps mean a witness statement (WS)?  Can you show us the defence you filed, as it might help with how you compile your WS.  Have you completed your DQ and what is the date by which you must return it.

nosferatu1001

1) Tell us exactly what you sent in defence. 
2) Yep, sounds right, and the newbies thread says not to tick mediation
3) You have already filed your one and only defence. Read the newbies thread, post 2, which tells you what to expect and when. 
4) No it isnt, as they dont have any witnesses. YOU were there, THEY werent. 
I hope you at least asked them to prove you left site
What is confusing me is the timing. 
- When did you arrive on site, approx?
- When did you leave site, IN THE CAR?
- what actually happened?  This isnt about paying for a cinema ticket, they allege the driver left "the site" - so why would they think that>? 
I dont understand the timing of elaving at 11.30 - is that the time the vehicle left site? WHy dod htyey say 12.30?

Umkomaas

If you've already received a DQ, your Defence is done, you can't change that. Please show us exactly what you said in it. 

Once you've submitted your DQ, you'll receive instructions from the court you nominate as to when you submit your Witness Statement and evidence. 

The entire court process is outlined in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, second post, which really needs to be your 'Bible' to reference from here on. 

'Leaving the Site' cases are the most difficult to prove. The last court case (to my knowledge) was almost 9 years ago, when VCS (Excel's sister company) came away with a very bloody nose and their legal rep got dangerously close to a 'holiday' from which site she would not have the luxury of leaving!  Some bits of legislation have changed since then, but nothing to concern you, but for a bit of light reading and to get a 'handle' on some of the difficulties potentially facing a claimant pursuing this, I've linked the court transcript for you. 

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=16231)

D_P_Dance

y I suggtest that you raise this matter with your MP, a head of steam is building to severely hobble these scammers.

KB8809

Thank you for the replies. 

The defence I wrote was outlining the reason I disagree with this I will post this below. I have on numerous occasions via email and letter asked this company to provide me with evidence of me leaving the site to which they have not done so. I left my car at approx 11:30 -45 ish and they state I was observed leaving the car/site at 12:30 ish which would not of happended as I had already left the car at that point. They have taken images of my car and the sign post for the car parking rules and that is all. I am not disputing I was parked there I am disputing I was using the services and they are yet to evidence their reasoning of me being observed leaving the site. 

I do not accept liability for this claim and wish to defend the full amount of £185.

• I was contacted by the company back in 2017 regarding this parking charge notice in which I explained to them at the time that I had actually left my car 30-40 minutes prior to the time of the notice therefore requested they provide me with CCTV images of me leaving the site. I also explained at the time I was parked within the free car parking bays to use one of the many facilities located at the leisure park. I had taken my children to the cinema, they asked for receipts I advised I did not keep the receipt and had paid via cash. I advised the agent at the time I noted there was also a football match on the same day/time at the riverside stadium in which people were parking there and walking to the stadium. I felt I was penalised and victimised because of this. The company did not send me any documentation or evidence of me leaving the site and not using any of the facilities. I asked for this via numerous telephone calls. It is unfair to expect someone to pay for something they are accused of without providing evidence. There are a number of facilities available to use at the leisure park including but not limited to Pizza Hut, McDonald’s, Nando’s and the cinema which all would allow me to park freely at the site.  I have recently asked the company again to provide me with the evidence they state they have and are currently awaiting a response from them. 

D_P_Dance

It is possible that some of that £185 is for charges not allowed by law.  Please read this

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

Have they added £60 for debt collection costs?  If so, they may struggle in court.

beamerguy

The Excel v Wilkinson case was deemed by a judge who is now a senior judge ... ABUSE OF PROCESS ....THEY ARE STILL AT IT ...... 

No reason to think they will win, they are after all abusing the courts now.

KB8809

They didn’t state why they had added extra monies on. I am unsure how they can even take this to court without any evidence. This is what they stated on claim:

D_P_Dance

• I am unsure how they can even take this to court without any evidence. 

They will have evidence.  However a judge may not think that it is sufficient to find for them.   They would have to have a mountain of such for a "leaving premises" claim.  Futhermore, it is likely to fall to be considered under the unfair terms and conditions provisions the CRE 2015

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/part/2/enacted

and perhaps even the Human Rights Act.   

nosferatu1001

They can file a claim against anyone with nothing. They pay the fee, a claim is filed. Evidence comes later
Also, you dont know they dont have evidence (well, you do, but we come back to that later) - you know they havent ever shown you such.
So, when you say "left the car" be precise. 
- you locked the car, and left it to go the cinema?
- the car left the car park at that time?
I presume at no point did you ever leave "the site"? You failed to deny leaving the site, or at least you only implicitly said so. This is court. You accept or deny their claim explicitly. Again this is about being precise and unambiguous. 

We know they do not justify the extra cash. Your job is to make sure you reference Excel v Wilson above, and include the judgment in your Witness Statement that you know, because you've read the newbies thread, you will write now. 

Your witness statement needs to make it clear precisely where you were at 1230, it needs to confirm exactly where you were - any details such as the film you saw would help. Your job iis to come across as a credible witness and you are the only likely witness that will be present
You must, today, send a SAR to the claimant
You require all personal data including their evidence that you allegedly left site, whether that is CCTV footage or a witness statement from an employee of theirs. You require this as this is by definition your data,