Estate agent etiquette

The_Man_In_The_Pub

youth_leader said:

I'm in rented and had to have viewing with the prospective new tenants, 

No you didn't! You have absolutely no legal obligation to let prospective new tenants nose around your home (and during a pandemic!) for the landlords benefit, no matter what your contract says.

lookstraightahead

Falafels said:

lookstraightahead said:

As there's a pandemic on, maybe people should stop putting their houses on the market if they don't want people wasting their time. 

Do you really think sellers want time wasters in 'normal' times???

No - but it comes with the territory. As I said, I offered without an AIP in place and now I'm nearing exchange. 
This is how all business works - sometimes those we think as timewasters actually are not. And of course the other way around. Just because you have funds in the bank can still make you a time waster. 

Seashell517

lookstraightahead said:

Seashell517 said:

lookstraightahead said:

Seashell517 said:

There's a pandemic on. Responsible agents are only showing houses to proceedable buyers. It's not the time to be letting anyone who fancies a look into other people's homes.

An AIP doesn't mean you have a mortgage though. I think EAs lose buyers on this basis, as per my previous post.
i would prefer proof that there's no chain from the buyers side - reduces risk much more.

As there's a pandemic on, maybe people should stop putting their houses on the market if they don't want people wasting their time. There are some nightmare vendors too who aren't willing to move, thus wasting buyers time by pretending that they are serious. 

The OP said 'proof of funds'. That doesn't always mean a DIP. But if you need a mortgage then you're going to need the DIP to put an offer in anyway, so what's the difference to the viewer in getting it before the viewing? If they're serious about buying then they'll need one pretty soon anyway. 

As I posted, this could have happened to me. But the agent was savvy enough to show me round while the DIP was being processed. I would like to see how serious vendors are and proof that they can move out.

Most of the time when you're viewing a house, the vendor won't be able to prove that they 'can move out' because they can't view properties until they're proceedable. That's how chain building works; from the bottom up. Or else only view empty properties yourself, if you're that worried. (Which is actually what I did, once I'd sold my own property and become proceedable, because I didn't want a chain above me...)

The_Man_In_The_Pub

The agent informed me that this is new company policy  

And I'd inform the agent that it is my policy not to reveal how much I have to spend thankyou very much (and if they still refuse, just pop a note through the vendors door).

Honestly. The estate agents must see some of you lot coming!

MaryNB

lookstraightahead said:

MaryNB said:

lookstraightahead said:

Seashell517 said:

There's a pandemic on. Responsible agents are only showing houses to proceedable buyers. It's not the time to be letting anyone who fancies a look into other people's homes.

An AIP doesn't mean you have a mortgage though. I think EAs lose buyers on this basis, as per my previous post.
i would prefer proof that there's no chain from the buyers side - reduces risk much more.

As there's a pandemic on, maybe people should stop putting their houses on the market if they don't want people wasting their time. There are some nightmare vendors too who aren't willing to move, thus wasting buyers time by pretending that they are serious. 

Where I live houses go SSTC pretty fast so it would have been a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face if I refused to get an AIP before a viewing. It look less than 5 minutes to do one. In the end they didnt ask for it before the viewing (I did tell them I had one). The EA did do a much more thorough check of my finances before accepting (it was partially a ruse to get me to use their mortgage advisor though). They wouldn't mark it SSTC until I had my mortgage offer. 

There is an option between zero viewings and excessive viewings. A homeowner may accept the risk of viewings but attempt mitigate that risk by getting the EA to vet buyers. The fact that nightmare vendors exist has no bearing on vendors trying to manage timewasting viewers.
In May I was renting and on a joint tenancy and we had to find a replacement tenant. We wouldn't allow anyone to view without a skype chat first. We did urgently need to find someone but still didn't want loads of people trekking though the house during the first lockdown.

A 5-min AIP just proves my point.

yes of course you need everything before SSTC. That's when in becomes more realistic, for the MOS.

I never said it was fool proof, aside from requesting proof of a full mortgage offer (which obviously no one will have until an offer is accepted) anything the EA does is just an attempt to discourage some timewasters. Some people will take the 5 minutes to do it.  Others won't and will move on. Maybe it will discourage some genuine buyers but if I was selling in a high demand market (like the market where I live) I would just presume they weren't that interested to begin with and another buyer would be along soon. Obviously in a quieter market without an pandemic sellers might be need to be a bit more relaxed about it.

Some may be happy to lie on an AIP so they can nose around a house well above their budget, others won't. Even then there are plenty of homeowners who could do a quick honest AIP and show a genuine bank statement as proof of deposit and still be a timewaster because they're only doing it as an easy way to bypass lockdown rules as stated above. 

At the end of the day you don't have provide an AIP if you don't want to, and a vendor doesn't have to allow you to view without one if they don't want to. For me it was tiny price to pay to be able to buy my first home in a busy market.

lookstraightahead

MaryNB said:

lookstraightahead said:

MaryNB said:

lookstraightahead said:

Seashell517 said:

There's a pandemic on. Responsible agents are only showing houses to proceedable buyers. It's not the time to be letting anyone who fancies a look into other people's homes.

An AIP doesn't mean you have a mortgage though. I think EAs lose buyers on this basis, as per my previous post.
i would prefer proof that there's no chain from the buyers side - reduces risk much more.

As there's a pandemic on, maybe people should stop putting their houses on the market if they don't want people wasting their time. There are some nightmare vendors too who aren't willing to move, thus wasting buyers time by pretending that they are serious. 

Where I live houses go SSTC pretty fast so it would have been a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face if I refused to get an AIP before a viewing. It look less than 5 minutes to do one. In the end they didnt ask for it before the viewing (I did tell them I had one). The EA did do a much more thorough check of my finances before accepting (it was partially a ruse to get me to use their mortgage advisor though). They wouldn't mark it SSTC until I had my mortgage offer. 

There is an option between zero viewings and excessive viewings. A homeowner may accept the risk of viewings but attempt mitigate that risk by getting the EA to vet buyers. The fact that nightmare vendors exist has no bearing on vendors trying to manage timewasting viewers.
In May I was renting and on a joint tenancy and we had to find a replacement tenant. We wouldn't allow anyone to view without a skype chat first. We did urgently need to find someone but still didn't want loads of people trekking though the house during the first lockdown.

A 5-min AIP just proves my point.

yes of course you need everything before SSTC. That's when in becomes more realistic, for the MOS.

I never said it was fool proof, aside from requesting proof of a full mortgage offer (which obviously no one will have until an offer is accepted) anything the EA does is just an attempt to discourage some timewasters. Some people will take the 5 minutes to do it.  Others won't and will move on. Maybe it will discourage some genuine buyers but if I was selling in a high demand market (like the market where I live) I would just presume they weren't that interested to begin with and another buyer would be along soon. Obviously in a quieter market without an pandemic sellers might be need to be a bit more relaxed about it.

Some may be happy to lie on an AIP so they can nose around a house well above their budget, others won't. Even then there are plenty of homeowners who could do a quick honest AIP and show a genuine bank statement as proof of deposit and still be a timewaster because they're only doing it as an easy way to bypass lockdown rules as stated above. 

At the end of the day you don't have provide an AIP if you don't want to, and a vendor doesn't have to allow you to view without one if they don't want to. For me it was tiny price to pay to be able to buy my first home in a busy market.

How do you show proof of deposit if you need it from the sale of your house? Genuine question because from what I can see EAs are running the risk of losing lots of potential buyers by asking for useless bits of paper. I agree it might weed out some timewasters, but at a huge expense.

Can you imagine if we all had to show the content of our purses before we went into a supermarket?

saajan_12

lookstraightahead

Can you imagine if we all had to show the content of our purses before we went into a supermarket?

Can you imagine if we all had a private showing of the supermarket shelves, with no order placed. How many supermarkets would still have their doors open? Can you imagine  4 month negotiations and due dilligence before you're locked in to buy a pint of milk, and then drop those pennies a few days later? Different markets have different conventions. 

Refusing to show your AIP may have worked for you, with that EA, that vendor, depending on who was more keen, how much effect an extra viewing would have on their circumstances etc. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Yes it may not be 100% and may miss a small number of buyers like you, but if the vendor / EA assess that small risk is not worth the uptick in volume of viewings, covid risk, impact on people working from home etc, then that's their choice, and a perfectly valid one. 

Most decisions in life aren't about capturing 100%, but balancing the risk / reward. 

MaryNB

lookstraightahead said:

MaryNB said:

lookstraightahead said:

MaryNB said:

lookstraightahead said:

Seashell517 said:

There's a pandemic on. Responsible agents are only showing houses to proceedable buyers. It's not the time to be letting anyone who fancies a look into other people's homes.

An AIP doesn't mean you have a mortgage though. I think EAs lose buyers on this basis, as per my previous post.
i would prefer proof that there's no chain from the buyers side - reduces risk much more.

As there's a pandemic on, maybe people should stop putting their houses on the market if they don't want people wasting their time. There are some nightmare vendors too who aren't willing to move, thus wasting buyers time by pretending that they are serious. 

Where I live houses go SSTC pretty fast so it would have been a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face if I refused to get an AIP before a viewing. It look less than 5 minutes to do one. In the end they didnt ask for it before the viewing (I did tell them I had one). The EA did do a much more thorough check of my finances before accepting (it was partially a ruse to get me to use their mortgage advisor though). They wouldn't mark it SSTC until I had my mortgage offer. 

There is an option between zero viewings and excessive viewings. A homeowner may accept the risk of viewings but attempt mitigate that risk by getting the EA to vet buyers. The fact that nightmare vendors exist has no bearing on vendors trying to manage timewasting viewers.
In May I was renting and on a joint tenancy and we had to find a replacement tenant. We wouldn't allow anyone to view without a skype chat first. We did urgently need to find someone but still didn't want loads of people trekking though the house during the first lockdown.

A 5-min AIP just proves my point.

yes of course you need everything before SSTC. That's when in becomes more realistic, for the MOS.

I never said it was fool proof, aside from requesting proof of a full mortgage offer (which obviously no one will have until an offer is accepted) anything the EA does is just an attempt to discourage some timewasters. Some people will take the 5 minutes to do it.  Others won't and will move on. Maybe it will discourage some genuine buyers but if I was selling in a high demand market (like the market where I live) I would just presume they weren't that interested to begin with and another buyer would be along soon. Obviously in a quieter market without an pandemic sellers might be need to be a bit more relaxed about it.

Some may be happy to lie on an AIP so they can nose around a house well above their budget, others won't. Even then there are plenty of homeowners who could do a quick honest AIP and show a genuine bank statement as proof of deposit and still be a timewaster because they're only doing it as an easy way to bypass lockdown rules as stated above. 

At the end of the day you don't have provide an AIP if you don't want to, and a vendor doesn't have to allow you to view without one if they don't want to. For me it was tiny price to pay to be able to buy my first home in a busy market.

How do you show proof of deposit if you need it from the sale of your house? Genuine question because from what I can see EAs are running the risk of losing lots of potential buyers by asking for useless bits of paper. I agree it might weed out some timewasters, but at a huge expense.

Can you imagine if we all had to show the content of our purses before we went into a supermarket?

I did once realise after I got to the end of using the self service supermarket checkout that I had forgotten my purse. I was absolutely mortified but I was able to leave my shopping at customer services and come back 10 minutes later with payment. It's not the same dealing with a six figure transaction in a process that takes an average of 3 months that incurs fees on both sides.

What's the big difference between showing it before a viewing and after a viewing? If it's fear that they'll demand more, well what's stopping them doing it just after the offer? "I accepted your offer, you showed me your finances; however, I have since found a house I want and I need £xxk more to be able to afford it and I know you're good for it". In my case, the EA knew I could afford more because they had my bank statements but I gave a best and final, told them that the maximum I was willing to spend and I knew nobody would offer more because they already had to drop the price. I was annoyed they wouldn't mark the house SSTC until I had my offer in place and considered retracting my offer. I was convinced they would use my offer to leverage a better one but I wanted the house so I took that risk. I'm now living in it and didn't pay more than the offer that was accepted. Nobody forced me to but that was just part of the process I accepted so I could buy the house I wanted. 

With regard to relying on the sale of a property, if you can't show proof up front, how can you prove affordability after the offer is accepted?  Given that a lot of EAs don't seem to be allowing people to view if they are not proceedable, if someone is relying on the sale of the house they should already have an offer in place.  I'll admit I've never sold a house but couldn't your EA verify the offer on your house? You can provide financial statements, you can provide an AIP. 

If I was selling I'd expect an EA to do those checks very early on in the process. Once again, not fool proof given there's a risk the buyer will gazunder you but mitigation at least. Absolutely nothing is guaranteed until exchange. If I wasted money and time on conveyancing and surveys I'd be pretty annoyed if the chain collapsed after months because my EA didn't do basic due diligence up front.  Not the same as a supermarket employee spending 2 minutes putting shopping bags behind the counter because their customer is a moron who forgot her purse. 

As I said before, you don't have to show the EA anything, but the vendor equally doesn't have to let you view. You can just find an EA who asks for nothing, and that first vendor can find a buyer who is willing to provide proof.

Tippytoes

I wish lie detector tests were compulsory for all viewers.  I sold a property via an agent with clear instructions that I only wanted viewers who were in an able-to-proceed position.  Viewers lied, agents lied.  Never used an agent again and thereafter somehow developed a knack of sussing viewers within minutes.

lookstraightahead

saajan_12 said:

lookstraightahead

Can you imagine if we all had to show the content of our purses before we went into a supermarket?

Can you imagine if we all had a private showing of the supermarket shelves, with no order placed. How many supermarkets would still have their doors open? Can you imagine  4 month negotiations and due dilligence before you're locked in to buy a pint of milk, and then drop those pennies a few days later? Different markets have different conventions. 

Refusing to show your AIP may have worked for you, with that EA, that vendor, depending on who was more keen, how much effect an extra viewing would have on their circumstances etc. That doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Yes it may not be 100% and may miss a small number of buyers like you, but if the vendor / EA assess that small risk is not worth the uptick in volume of viewings, covid risk, impact on people working from home etc, then that's their choice, and a perfectly valid one. 

Most decisions in life aren't about capturing 100%, but balancing the risk / reward. 

I didn't refuse to show my AIP, I didn't have one as I was applying properly and ensuring I could get a mortgage as it was tied up with probate/inheritance. I was looking for a low loan to value which in turn has helped with the sale as it's an old house I'm buying. I was actually a better risk than most - I just needed someone to acknowledge that. Too many people make offers and then cannot get their full mortgage offers. 
What I'm saying is the process isn't very good - it doesn't take away the timewasters.
i do agree with the Covid risk, so maybe a different solution would be for the buyer to wait until it's safer.

anyway, Im sure that as the person at the bottom of the chain, all four sets of people are glad I was shown round.