Electric wet CH - yes roll your eyes!

VXman

You are not alone on the 'not getting warm' thing. We have a fully doubleglazed and reasnably well insulated house (1980's). I have put extra layers in the loft. But we never get the house above 15 at the moment. Blankets on the settee is the current way forward.

On tariffs - you need to check out the the standing charge aswell as the KWH rate.

tim_p

VXman said:

You are not alone on the 'not getting warm' thing. We have a fully doubleglazed and reasnably well insulated house (1980's). I have put extra layers in the loft. But we never get the house above 15 at the moment. Blankets on the settee is the current way forward.

On tariffs - you need to check out the the standing charge aswell as the KWH rate.

Seriously?  What heating do you have?  Ours is an 80s bungalow and our GCH has always managed to keep at it 21 or above and that’s despite, what I’m ashamed to admit, is pretty sparse roof insulation (struggling to find a professional local installer to do it properly).

molerat

I suspect 3500 kWh is way under estimating.  That is just above the average for non electric heating.  Anyway, Neon Reef are currently offering 13.619p/kWh and 11.66p/day for your post code which comes out at £519 per year compared to SP standard of 16.908p/23.07p which comes out at £676.  A 12 mth fix with Neon Reef is only a fraction more expensive at 13.664/kWh. At 10000 kWh you would save £366 per year against SP standard rate. That current estimated 2900/600 at your current tariff is costing you at least £599 without adding the standing charge and maybe VAT as well.

Ectophile

Doug86 said:

It's a shame. I considered everything else with this house except properly investigating the heating. I simply took it for granted that electric boilers were cheaper, were 100% efficient and required next to no maintenance thereby evening out the cheaper cost of gas. I figured it would be more expensive for sure but not to this degree.

Actually, they are near enough 100% efficient, and are very reliable.  It's a pity they cost so much to run!

A heat pump system costs a fortune to install, but has an "efficiency" around 300 to 400%.  You get more heat out than electricity in.

Gerry1

Ectophile said:

Doug86 said:

It's a shame. I considered everything else with this house except properly investigating the heating. I simply took it for granted that electric boilers were cheaper, were 100% efficient and required next to no maintenance thereby evening out the cheaper cost of gas. I figured it would be more expensive for sure but not to this degree.

A heat pump system costs a fortune to install, but has an "efficiency" around 300 to 400%.

Is there any evidence of a COP over 3.0 or more ever being achieved in reality?

matelodave

I'd be much more inclined to assume an "efficiency" of 2.5 to 3 for a modern heatpump rather than 3-4 and even that depends on how its been set up and how being used and the time of year. I guess our COP is excellent in the summer when its just heating hot water,  and the outside temp is quite high but it's probably struggling to achieve even 2 when its zero degrees outside.

Mine is spec'd for around 3.6 but under very precise conditions which are seldom if ever achieved in real life and certainly not at this time of the year

Cardew

Gerry1 said:

Ectophile said:

Doug86 said:

It's a shame. I considered everything else with this house except properly investigating the heating. I simply took it for granted that electric boilers were cheaper, were 100% efficient and required next to no maintenance thereby evening out the cheaper cost of gas. I figured it would be more expensive for sure but not to this degree.

A heat pump system costs a fortune to install, but has an "efficiency" around 300 to 400%.

Is there any evidence of a COP over 3.0 or more ever being achieved in reality?

I have long been sceptical of the claims for ASHP performance and indeed started a thread 10 years ago see:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2968958/ashp-should-do-better-must-do-better/p1

The first page gives the flavour.

Unfortunately the links to the detailed trial reports no longer work.

However 10 years on we still have the situation where the manufacturers sell their systems to firms who will install them but give no guarantee of the SYSTEM COP they will achieve. Customers still take 'pot luck'.

If the manufacturers are confident that their installed heat pumps will achieve anything like their advertised COP figures why not conduct an  12 month trial montitored by a respected organisation?

Gerry1

Cardew said:

Gerry1 said:

Ectophile said:

Doug86 said:

It's a shame. I considered everything else with this house except properly investigating the heating. I simply took it for granted that electric boilers were cheaper, were 100% efficient and required next to no maintenance thereby evening out the cheaper cost of gas. I figured it would be more expensive for sure but not to this degree.

A heat pump system costs a fortune to install, but has an "efficiency" around 300 to 400%.

Is there any evidence of a COP over 3.0 or more ever being achieved in reality?

Unfortunately the links to the detailed trial reports no longer work.

That's because a lot more work was done.

Try this instead: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606818/DECC_RHPP_161214_Final_Report_v1-13.pdf

knightstyle

You say the place strugles to get warm?  So where are you loosing the heat?  Think about getting a simple laser thermometer and scanning the windows, doors , walls etc. both inside and out.  Then see what you can do to stop the heat escaping.

Cardew

Gerry1 said:

Cardew said:

Gerry1 said:

Ectophile said:

Doug86 said:

It's a shame. I considered everything else with this house except properly investigating the heating. I simply took it for granted that electric boilers were cheaper, were 100% efficient and required next to no maintenance thereby evening out the cheaper cost of gas. I figured it would be more expensive for sure but not to this degree.

A heat pump system costs a fortune to install, but has an "efficiency" around 300 to 400%.

Is there any evidence of a COP over 3.0 or more ever being achieved in reality?

Unfortunately the links to the detailed trial reports no longer work.

That's because a lot more work was done.

Try this instead: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/606818/DECC_RHPP_161214_Final_Report_v1-13.pdf

Thanks. I will get round to looking at in detail later, but a quick skim appears to show that you will be lucky to get a system COP of 3.0.

Incidentally this is a different trial to the EST trial I referenced in the my thread. In fact this later report makes reference to the earlier EST trial.