Hydrogen ETF

Apodemus

maxsteam said:

There have not been many successful fuels in the past (coal, gas, petrol, diesel and electricity). It looks like LPG will not have time to become widely accepted as a vehicle fuel before electricity takes over. Ammonia is toxic.

ALL of these fuels are capable of killing you if you use them the wrong way. Ammonia is no different in this regard.

Chickereeeee

maxsteam said:

Chickereeeee said:

Ammonia seems a  more viable solution for large transport vehicles

Be wary of anyone offering the fuel of the future. There have not been many successful fuels in the past (coal, gas, petrol, diesel and electricity). It looks like LPG will not have time to become widely accepted as a vehicle fuel before electricity takes over. Ammonia is toxic.

So is petrol, diesel etc. But at least with ammonia you can tell if you have a leak (unlike hydrogen) and it can be stored in its liquid state at 25C in simple steel, LPG-type containers.

Ciprico

H2 can be used for solar power storage. Ie on  a sunny day if all the generated power can't be used it can be used to produce h2 cheaply through electrolysis. (ITM).


The nasty chemicals required for batteries are not limitless.

There are also industrial applications like decarbonising steel production where h2 is uniquely applicable.

The description of fuel cells above is not accurate. They can be considered as a device (le a battery) that you pump gas into and it efficiently produces electricity. If the gas flows power is generated. So you don't get the discharge/charge cycles of a normal battery.
H2 does not have all the answers but it does raise some interesting questions away from EVs

FirstTimeSolo

As a large manufacturer, my company is looking as use of hydrogen from a sustainability point of this. This is however 10-15 years away from implementation but very much in the works. 

Shedman

Interesting article about a paste that stores Hydrogen at room temp and atmospheric pressure as possible means of overcoming difficulties of using pressurised tanks on small vehicles such as scooters and motorbikes 

https://www.fraunhofer.de/en/press/research-news/2021/february-2021/hydrogen-powered-drives-for-e-scooters.html

Gadfium

Ciprico said:

H2 can be used for solar power storage. Ie on  a sunny day if all the generated power can't be used it can be used to produce h2 cheaply through electrolysis. (ITM).


The nasty chemicals required for batteries are not limitless.

There are also industrial applications like decarbonising steel production where h2 is uniquely applicable.

The description of fuel cells above is not accurate. They can be considered as a device (le a battery) that you pump gas into and it efficiently produces electricity. If the gas flows power is generated. So you don't get the discharge/charge cycles of a normal battery.
H2 does not have all the answers but it does raise some interesting questions away from EVs

Producing H2 by electrolysis is very inefficient (you get less energy from the hydrogen than you expend in breaking the chemical links to oxygen. Whilst it's technically possible, the vast majority of H2 produced in the world is by steam reformation of fossil fuels.

Regarding Fuel Cell, they are also far from efficient and that's before you add in the losses from creating H2 and charging the batteries that all FCEVs contain. For personal transportation h2 is a busted flush and has been for decades.

maxsteam

Chickereeeee said:

 at least with ammonia you can tell if you have a leak (unlike hydrogen) and it can be stored in its liquid state at 25C in simple steel, LPG-type containers.

Like I said, I have seen too many bright new ideas to jump on any bandwagon. I am willing to look at numbers but, imho, there is too much hype and too few reliable numbers in the alternative fuels markets.

Chickereeeee

maxsteam said:

Chickereeeee said:

 at least with ammonia you can tell if you have a leak (unlike hydrogen) and it can be stored in its liquid state at 25C in simple steel, LPG-type containers.

Like I said, I have seen too many bright new ideas to jump on any bandwagon. I am willing to look at numbers but, imho, there is too much hype and too few reliable numbers in the alternative fuels markets.

Understood, but as I said, ammonia could be seen as just a transport mechanism for hydrogen. it is pretty much hydrogen-in at one end and hydrogen-out at the other end of the distribution line.

Shocking_Blue

Dear all,
Just wondered if members had any updated/revised thoughts on Hydrogen.
Thanks.

bostonerimus

Putting money into such a speculative single commodity is going to be a gamble. The lure of potentially big gains is what keeps people buying single stocks and highly focused funds, but they often fail to consider the potential losses.