Wet bedroom walls- Condensation?

Arsenal2019

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Aresenal2019, first, the bedroom door thing. I'm just saying that windows open overnight is good, but the door is your call - I'm not sure if it helps condie problems or not. HOWEVER, it ISN'T the cause of this damp patch - that is NOT internal condensation - it's water from above.

Grenage's idea is cool - tape your phone to a pole or stick, set it to record and take it over that corner - shine a torch there too for light. If you're lucky, it'll be obvious where the water is coming from. It'll almost certainly be either (a) that moist/wet you are seeing on the underside of the slates slowly trickling down the roof slop to end up there - and then through to your wall, or else (b) it's coming through from outside, either at that spot or further up - and then trickling down the roof to that spot.

I suspect it's appearing at that point simply because it's the lowest part of the roof, so that's where water will likely end up.

If it's from the moist/wet underslate, then that begs a further two questions... (1) is it due to condensation forming on the underside of the slates, or (2) is it rain being blown in up and under the slates - which would normally be taken care of by a layer of felt (a secondary defence system).

For (1), you need two things to happen. First, warm moist air from your house would need to be getting up there in the first place - that's where the condensation comes from. Is your loft hatch sealed? Or is there a steady draught getting up past it and into the loft? You have loft insulation there - that's good. The other thing you'd need for condensation forming up there is for the loft space to not be ventilated. I'm imagining that your loft is perfectly fine for ventilation - the insulation is kept nicely away from the eaves (which is where most ventilation comes from - grills in the soffits) but also because you have no felt! There must surely be a HUGE amount of air getting it past ALL these slates, which SHOULD mean that they are kept dry inside.

So, I just can't see that it's down to condensation - tho', of course, it could be.

For (2), this is one reason why felt is fitted before the slates. In exceptional circumstances - very gusty and driving rain - the rain doesn't just land on the roof outside and flow safely away downwards, but is instead blown back up the roof so it gets under the slates and is blown right inside the loft. Usually not a problem, because you have a layer of felt there to catch it all and direct it outside into the guttering at the bottom. But you don't have felt...

It's all guesswork - if your camera doesn't help ID the cause, then you need a pro. (And you'll likely need a pro in any case to fix it...

Yes I shall try with the doors open and see if this helps

I can see right into the corner by reaching out my arm and holding the phone on record (with flash). I can see in the corners and there doesn’t seem to be any sort of puddling, just cold/wet slAtes.

I would say that the roof was well ventilated as there’s plenty of insulation, and there is a cool

Breeze which you feel as soon as you pop your head into the attic 

I’ve just bought a dehumidifier in the hope that this helps too

Jeepers_Creepers

Arsenal2019 said:

Yes I shall try with the doors open and see if this helps

I can see right into the corner by reaching out my arm and holding the phone on record (with flash). I can see in the corners and there doesn’t seem to be any sort of puddling, just cold/wet slAtes.

I would say that the roof was well ventilated as there’s plenty of insulation, and there is a cool

Breeze which you feel as soon as you pop your head into the attic 

I’ve just bought a dehumidifier in the hope that this helps too

"Yes I shall try with the doors open and see if this helps". Sorry, I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. You already have your bedroom doors open? That's fine - it might help to keep down condensation in your bedroom, or it might not. What IS important is that you vent the windows overnight. But this is, in any case, a completely different issue to that of the water stain on your ceiling. Opening the door (or shutting it, or flapping it about) isn't going to help that water stain. What also isn't going to help it is a dehumidifier. That stain is not 'humidity' - it's an actual quantity of water coming through. As long as the cause remains, so will the damp patch.

You could aim a fan heater at it for an hour and that might get it dry, but it'll come back as soon as whatever is causing it above the ceiling also comes back.

For internally-generated 'room' condensation, the first surfaces that water will condense out on are the window panes, along the bottoms and up the sides. Do you have that in your bedroom in the morning? No? That's largely because you keep your windows cracked open during the night. You don't have a 'condensation' problem - at least not in the room.

You might have a cond issue in the loft - I don't know. From what you say, the undersides of the slates are damp - and they shouldn't be. Perhaps it's just exceptional circumstances - a combination of very cold temps outside (so slates are freezing) coupled with little wind (so loft not being blow-dried...). It might just go away by itself once the weather changes - warmer and/or windier.

Might.

Arsenal2019

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Arsenal2019 said:

Yes I shall try with the doors open and see if this helps

I can see right into the corner by reaching out my arm and holding the phone on record (with flash). I can see in the corners and there doesn’t seem to be any sort of puddling, just cold/wet slAtes.

I would say that the roof was well ventilated as there’s plenty of insulation, and there is a cool

Breeze which you feel as soon as you pop your head into the attic 

I’ve just bought a dehumidifier in the hope that this helps too

"Yes I shall try with the doors open and see if this helps". Sorry, I think you misunderstand what I'm saying. You already have your bedroom doors open? That's fine - it might help to keep down condensation in your bedroom, or it might not. What IS important is that you vent the windows overnight. But this is, in any case, a completely different issue to that of the water stain on your ceiling. Opening the door (or shutting it, or flapping it about) isn't going to help that water stain. What also isn't going to help it is a dehumidifier. That stain is not 'humidity' - it's an actual quantity of water coming through. As long as the cause remains, so will the damp patch.

You could aim a fan heater at it for an hour and that might get it dry, but it'll come back as soon as whatever is causing it above the ceiling also comes back.

For internally-generated 'room' condensation, the first surfaces that water will condense out on are the window panes, along the bottoms and up the sides. Do you have that in your bedroom in the morning? No? That's largely because you keep your windows cracked open during the night. You don't have a 'condensation' problem - at least not in the room.

You might have a cond issue in the loft - I don't know. From what you say, the undersides of the slates are damp - and they shouldn't be. Perhaps it's just exceptional circumstances - a combination of very cold temps outside (so slates are freezing) coupled with little wind (so loft not being blow-dried...). It might just go away by itself once the weather changes - warmer and/or windier.

Might.

The windows are wet through in the morning , but only when I sleep with the window closed in the winter. Since I’ve been sleeping with windows open, the windows are not wet, it is just the wall.

by the sounds of things and what everyone is saying, it seems to be the guttering and/or potentially a problem with my slates or lack of roof ventilation or felt?

I guess the only way I’ll know for sure is by getting a professionals opinion and for them to see themselves- which is what I have booked in for 

Jeepers_Creepers

Arsenal2019 said:

The windows are wet through in the morning , but only when I sleep with the window closed in the winter. Since I’ve been sleeping with windows open, the windows are not wet, it is just the wall.

by the sounds of things and what everyone is saying, it seems to be the guttering and/or potentially a problem with my slates or lack of roof ventilation or felt?

I guess the only way I’ll know for sure is by getting a professionals opinion and for them to see themselves- which is what I have booked in for 

Absolutely - you've discovered the secret to dry windows is ventilation. If that damp wall patch was also due to internal condensation, then the windows would have to be soaking too - windows will pretty much always be the coldest part of a room (tho' it's theoretically possible for that top corner to be somehow exposed to the outside so super-cold...)

The main bit of evidence, tho', is the crisp, defined nature of that damp patch - that is sooo not condensation. Also the fact that there are runs coming from it - that's like a 'sudden' appearance of water rather than slowly condensing moisture.

Yes, could also well be an overflowing gutter - that would be good as it should be easy to sort.

Yup - you need someone in!

Keep us updated, please :-)  

Arsenal2019

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Arsenal2019 said:

The windows are wet through in the morning , but only when I sleep with the window closed in the winter. Since I’ve been sleeping with windows open, the windows are not wet, it is just the wall.

by the sounds of things and what everyone is saying, it seems to be the guttering and/or potentially a problem with my slates or lack of roof ventilation or felt?

I guess the only way I’ll know for sure is by getting a professionals opinion and for them to see themselves- which is what I have booked in for 

Absolutely - you've discovered the secret to dry windows is ventilation. If that damp wall patch was also due to internal condensation, then the windows would have to be soaking too - windows will pretty much always be the coldest part of a room (tho' it's theoretically possible for that top corner to be somehow exposed to the outside so super-cold...)

The main bit of evidence, tho', is the crisp, defined nature of that damp patch - that is sooo not condensation. Also the fact that there are runs coming from it - that's like a 'sudden' appearance of water rather than slowly condensing moisture.

Yes, could also well be an overflowing gutter - that would be good as it should be easy to sort.

Yup - you need someone in!

Keep us updated, please :-)  

Update - I’ve had one person in to have a look at it so far. They say that the bottom 3 rows of slate have dropped, thus letting water in when it rains / heavy wind. 

Would this be the case?

Jeepers_Creepers

That would be bludy brilliant - an actual cause! (Tho' a bit worrying... - three rows have slipped?!)

I'd get a second opinion, tho'. :-)  

Can you take a photo of the roof from the outside? Folk on here should be able to tell very quickly if slates really have slipped.

Arsenal2019

Jeepers_Creepers said:

That would be bludy brilliant - an actual cause! (Tho' a bit worrying... - three rows have slipped?!)

I'd get a second opinion, tho'. :-)  

Can you take a photo of the roof from the outside? Folk on here should be able to tell very quickly if slates really have slipped.

I’m trying so hard to get someone else up but either they’re not replying, or saying they’re too busy!
I will try my best to yet someone up there and to take a picture.
I have been quoted £1,100 for the re laying of bottom 3 rows of slate- including all materials, as well as felted and scaffolding . OR £1800 for a whole new front Half of the house.
is this a reasonable quote or is he trying to rip us off

Jeepers_Creepers

Can't you take a photo yourself from the ground? You should, I'd have thought, be able to get a decent shot from 20 paces :-) 

I can't comment on the quote - I don't know what's involved. I'd also like to know why these have 'slipped', because it could be a sign of something bigger going on.

stuart45

If the slates are slipping it means the roof has got nail sickness. I worked on this place 2 years ago where the eaves slates were slipping down into the gutter and the felt was really brittle under them.

Arsenal2019

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Can't you take a photo yourself from the ground? You should, I'd have thought, be able to get a decent shot from 20 paces :-) 

I can't comment on the quote - I don't know what's involved. I'd also like to know why these have 'slipped', because it could be a sign of something bigger going on.

I could of course take a photo from
the ground on the other side of the road, but it wouldn’t show anything- in terms of damaged / slipped slates.