Licence renewal

58tigger

I need to renew my photocard, I expected this to be easy to do online, my passport being only 18months old, however this was not the case. Having entered all of my details I then got a screen telling me that my id could not be verified that my passport needed to be valid! I then contacted their online chat, after waiting 35minutes the system threw me out! So I thought I would try again, I got the same message after trying to renew so I tried online chat again, this time after 20mins I was connected to an assistant called Laura, the replies she gave me left me totally amazed, firstly I can't renew online because my passport is too new! Why doesn't their covid updated renewal form state that if your passport isn't over a certain age they can't verify your id online? Had my passport been 9 years old I could have renwewed my licence online using the photo from it, so if I could have used a photo nearly as old as my photocard why does my photocard need to be renewed. I then explained to her that my wife is classed as extremely vulnerable & that due to being her carer & the small size of our bungalow I too am shielding as much as possible to protect her. The nearest post office to us that deals with licences is almost 10miles away in a town where the infection rate is far higher than here, I would then also have to pay £7.50 more than renewing online. The other option is to renew by post, still £3 more than online, but here's the problem where do I get a photo from? I am shielding to protect my wife & as far as I understand photobooths are currently out of use due to covid & photography shops are shut, also my bank account doesn't have a cheque book & payment is by cheque or postal order. Why not by entering a card number on the form? Her advice astounded me, she said that on the back of my licence it shows I have entitlement to drive until 70 (I'm only 51) so I can drive untill then, and to renew my photocard once it was safe to do so. I asked her what would happen if I had an accident attending an appointment after my photocard expired, her reply was that that was a police matter not DVLA! So I said but it's your system that wont let me renew safely, she replied by saying that she had told me I have entitlement to drive untill 70, I replied but it's illegal not to renew my photocard, she again said that that was police not DVLA. Sorry to have waffled on but I am just so angry & amazed by the advice given to me by this DVLA assistant, basically telling me to drive illegally. Has anyone any suggestions as to how I can sort this, they extended the expiry date for those who's licences were to expire between last March and December, are they going to do that again? I just don't know what to do I can't safely renew my photocard but it will be an offence not to. We only have benefits to live on as we are both disabled and each others carers. £3 more may not sound alot to some people but then I've got the cost of a photo, and the cost of postage to DVLA, which for safety will need to be a tracked service so again extra cost, none of which is my fault as I wanted to renew the most economical & currently safest way online. They should not be charging more to renew by post rather than online when it is their system that doesn't work! I have ordered the form online but that is going to take 7 to 10 working days to come. I know I should have renewed it sooner but I thought a fortnight before it expired was enough as I was going to renew online & I expected my passport to be fine being only 18months old.

williamgriffin

You'll get a better response if you use paragraphs. 

Car_54

Her advice was correct, you are still entitled to drive.

In the event that you are stopped by the police, they can check that entitlement on line. They are unlikely to care that your photocard is expired: it is a trvial offence and I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it. Even if you were, you have a pretty good explanation.

unforeseen

You may be entitled to drive till you are 70 but the offence would be having incorrect information on your licence contrary to  s.99.5 RTA 1988.
This is a non-endorsable offence

Car_54

unforeseen said:

You may be entitled to drive till you are 70 but the offence would be having incorrect information on your licence contrary to  s.99.5 RTA 1988.
This is a non-endorsable offence

What incorrect information do you have in mind?

Although it's difficult to read, I don't believe the OP has said he's changed his name, address or DOB.

AdrianC

58tigger said:

I need to renew my photocard, I expected this to be easy to do online, my passport being only 18months old, however this was not the case. Having entered all of my details I then got a screen telling me that my id could not be verified that my passport needed to be valid!

I then contacted their online chat, after waiting 35minutes the system threw me out!

So I thought I would try again, I got the same message after trying to renew so I tried online chat again, this time after 20mins I was connected to an assistant called Laura, the replies she gave me left me totally amazed, firstly I can't renew online because my passport is too new!

Why doesn't their covid updated renewal form state that if your passport isn't over a certain age they can't verify your id online?

Had my passport been 9 years old I could have renwewed my licence online using the photo from it, so if I could have used a photo nearly as old as my photocard why does my photocard need to be renewed. I then explained to her that my wife is classed as extremely vulnerable & that due to being her carer & the small size of our bungalow I too am shielding as much as possible to protect her.

The nearest post office to us that deals with licences is almost 10miles away in a town where the infection rate is far higher than here, I would then also have to pay £7.50 more than renewing online. The other option is to renew by post, still £3 more than online, but here's the problem where do I get a photo from? I am shielding to protect my wife & as far as I understand photobooths are currently out of use due to covid & photography shops are shut, also my bank account doesn't have a cheque book & payment is by cheque or postal order. Why not by entering a card number on the form?

Her advice astounded me, she said that on the back of my licence it shows I have entitlement to drive until 70 (I'm only 51) so I can drive untill then, and to renew my photocard once it was safe to do so. I asked her what would happen if I had an accident attending an appointment after my photocard expired, her reply was that that was a police matter not DVLA!

So I said but it's your system that wont let me renew safely, she replied by saying that she had told me I have entitlement to drive untill 70, I replied but it's illegal not to renew my photocard, she again said that that was police not DVLA.

Sorry to have waffled on but I am just so angry & amazed by the advice given to me by this DVLA assistant, basically telling me to drive illegally. Has anyone any suggestions as to how I can sort this, they extended the expiry date for those who's licences were to expire between last March and December, are they going to do that again?

I just don't know what to do I can't safely renew my photocard but it will be an offence not to. We only have benefits to live on as we are both disabled and each others carers. £3 more may not sound alot to some people but then I've got the cost of a photo, and the cost of postage to DVLA, which for safety will need to be a tracked service so again extra cost, none of which is my fault as I wanted to renew the most economical & currently safest way online. They should not be charging more to renew by post rather than online when it is their system that doesn't work!

I have ordered the form online but that is going to take 7 to 10 working days to come. I know I should have renewed it sooner but I thought a fortnight before it expired was enough as I was going to renew online & I expected my passport to be fine being only 18months old.

Paragraphs for legibility.

I am sceptical about the "passport too new" line. Far more likely is that there's some other issue. You're absolutely 100% it was definitely DVLA you were dealing with, not one of these scam application services? And you're absolutely sure all the details, including your passport number, were correct on the application? No minor mis-match between name or address on passport and licence?

The rules for DL photos are the same as for passport photos. You can take it yourself using a digital camera, including one on a phone or tablet - you don't need to go anywhere to have it taken.
https://www.gov.uk/photos-for-passports

Yes, you can drive legally with an expired photocard. The photocard's expiry does not affect your entitlement to drive. Yes, it is a minor administrative offence not to have an in-date photocard, but I doubt there would be any penalty in these circumstances.

The extension was due to backlogs at DVLA, because the staff there were locked down and not working, leading to a massive postal backlog. That does not apply now, and they have their working-from-home systems up and running, so there's unlikely to be an extension.

They charge more to apply by post than online - or, rather, less to apply online - because there's a big difference in the administrative overhead required, so they're trying to incentivise people to apply online wherever possible.

It's entirely your choice not to have a cheque book, and your bank should send you one if you ask them.

unforeseen

Car_54 said:

unforeseen said:

You may be entitled to drive till you are 70 but the offence would be having incorrect information on your licence contrary to  s.99.5 RTA 1988.
This is a non-endorsable offence

What incorrect information do you have in mind?

Although it's difficult to read, I don't believe the OP has said he's changed his name, address or DOB.

A photo that is less than 10 years old.
That is the opinion of quite a few solicitors if you'd care to check
2 for starters. 

https://www.chattertons.com/site/blog/road-traffic-law-blog/is-your-driving-licence-photo-out-of-date
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fleetnews.co.uk/amp/blog/entry/legislation-expired-photos-do-not-invalidate-driving-licences/46025/

williamgriffin

Car_54 said:

Her advice was correct, you are still entitled to drive.

In the event that you are stopped by the police, they can check that entitlement on line. They are unlikely to care that your photocard is expired: it is a trvial offence and I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it. Even if you were, you have a pretty good explanation.

But would the explanation be a defence to the non endorsable offence of driving otherwise than in accordance with a licence? There's also technically the offence of failing to produce. 

Car_54

unforeseen said:

Car_54 said:

unforeseen said:

You may be entitled to drive till you are 70 but the offence would be having incorrect information on your licence contrary to  s.99.5 RTA 1988.
This is a non-endorsable offence

What incorrect information do you have in mind?

Although it's difficult to read, I don't believe the OP has said he's changed his name, address or DOB.

A photo that is less than 10 years old.
That is the opinion of quite a few solicitors if you'd care to check
2 for starters. 

https://www.chattertons.com/site/blog/road-traffic-law-blog/is-your-driving-licence-photo-out-of-date
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fleetnews.co.uk/amp/blog/entry/legislation-expired-photos-do-not-invalidate-driving-licences/46025/

The section quoted applies only to non-surrender, which of course is the OP's situation.

However, he idea that an old photo is "incorrect information" is fanciful, and probably dreamt up by a bored solicitor after a long lunch.

erikvictoriasw1

I have a similar problem, can't do online because I do not have a UK passport, so I went to a post office that do it digital, they take pic etc... But system was down, so what happens if it stays down, will I get find because I can't renew it?
Lars