Water supply dispute

panvulcon

Hi, my wife and our young family have recently moved into an old manse house next to the church, both of which were originally built in 1867. We've recently had our internal water supply converted from lead to copper right up to the point of entry, which is via our basement and had planned to run this all the way up to our boundary ready for Yorkshire Water to connect us to their supply.

Over a month ago, I had put an application in to Yorkshire Water for them to connect us to the main supply, which I understand is part of their lead renewal program. 
According to Yorkshire water they will only replace their side if at no cost if one of the following are true:
a) you have your own water supply (not shared), or;
b) you are the first house on a shared supply.
After several site visits the Yorkshire Water technician has been unable to locate our external stop tap and has therefore concluded that we do not have one. He believes that we are on a shared supply with the church and this is where things get ugly.
Yorkshire Water have now suggested that we are no longer eligible for a free connection and the only option they are willing to provide us with, is a new connection at our cost. Which seems like a real cop out. They are currently writing up a quote for a new water supply connecting which will include digging up a busy road which will also incur traffic management charges - which sounds very expensive indeed!

I am currently disputing this with their development team because as of yet they have been unable to determine where the water enters our boundary and are therefore assuming that we are on a shared line, making the further assumptions that we share a water supply with the church, and not the other way around.

I've explained to them, that I find it unreasonable to assume that this supply belongs to the church given that we are the only domestic property on this "shared" line. 
They aren't being very specific and all the while we are drinking out of bottled water.

Do we have a leg to stand on regarding our argument or are we going to have no choice other than to pay up which could be thousands of pounds just for them to connect us to a clean water supply and supply an external stop tap?
This is one of those tasks which at first seemed so simple and has escalated!

Any advice appreciated.

Doozergirl

I'm bit confused.  Where were you getting water from before?  Who were you paying? 

panvulcon

We are supplied via our water board - Yorkshire Water who run a lead renewal program. In short we have replaced all the lead on our side of the boundary and would like Yorkshire Water to replace their side. Atm they are feeding our supply via lead piping.

Belenus

Have you talked to the church officials?

They may be able to help.

Doozergirl

And you've followed a different route to the lead pipe? 

Did your technician use dowsing rods at all? 

I'm a bit out of my depth but I don't see how you can be classed as a new connection if you have been paying them for an uninterrupted service.    Is it something you can escalate to Ofwat maybe?  (I have no idea, I'm just asking!)

Is the problem that the church has lead and you're an offshoot, do you think, so to have no lead you'd need a whole new supply or for the church to replace theirs? 

The cheapest option is, of course, to stay with the lead pipes and run the tap before drinking anything from them.   

princeofpounds

Hire a metal detector to find out where the pipe runs?

You know where the pipe enters your house - do you know where the nearest known mains water point is? May give you a clue where the pipe runs in between.

Dig? It's often what people resort to.

Ask the water company to put a trace wire down the pipe, given you have an open access point it may be possible.

panvulcon

Belenus said:

Have you talked to the church officials?

They may be able to help.

Doozergirl said:

And you've followed a different route to the lead pipe? 

Did your technician use dowsing rods at all? 

I'm a bit out of my depth but I don't see how you can be classed as a new connection if you have been paying them for an uninterrupted service.    Is it something you can escalate to Ofwat maybe?  (I have no idea, I'm just asking!)

Is the problem that the church has lead and you're an offshoot, do you think, so to have no lead you'd need a whole new supply or for the church to replace theirs? 

The cheapest option is, of course, to stay with the lead pipes and run the tap before drinking anything from them.  

Apologies, I should have said "we are in the process of replacing all the lead on our side of the boundary". Today only the house side has been replaced.

I think I may have confused things, I'll try to explain...

The waterboard are happy to take us off the shared lead supply by running a new line (at our expense) - that's options A, the most expensive option.

Option B, is for the waterboard to renew the pipework up to the boundary of the first property on the shared line. This is my preferred option, however the problem with this is that nobody knows who's property the line enters first - the waterboard are suggesting it enters on the Church side but I'm not convinced they have accuratley determined this. They have been unable find an external stop tap to either property and the plans do not reveal this detail either.
  
... Actually, perhaps I should ask them how they determined this 🤔 

Option C, is for us to speak with the Church like Belenus suggested and ask them to request a new line (free of charge); offering to replace the lead pipe up to where it enters our boundary - assuming the waterboard are correct in their assumption.

Jeepers_Creepers

For option C, the church would presumably have to arrange to have their pipework swapped for non-lead first? Good luck.

The WB sounds like complete pedants, but are surely on shaky ground here since they cannot even determine where the actual pipework runs and whose it is!

I think time to up the ante. Tell them - in RecDel writing or email to the top person - that you are a family with young kids, obviously concerned about their health. Towards that you are happy to arrange to have a new MDPE pipe run to the boundary of your property to their required specs, and you expect them to fulfil their side of this arrangement - renew in non-lead from the mains to your boundary. Add that THEY have failed to provide information as to the location of the current supply, and are therefore passing all responsibility to you to determine the existing route of the mains, and who is connected to it. This is NOT your responsibility to find out, and you expect them to come back with an acceptable solution with 2 weeks (dated...). Failing that, you will report them to OfWat and make a complaint to your local MP.

And then - if they don't reply positively - do so.

I've no idea if the threat of Ofwat or your MP will have success, but, if it doesn't, then keep pestering BOTH

on at least a weekly basis. They will tire - especially the MP - and I suspect very strongly they will pass the buck to the WB to get you off their backs.

It's pathetic, but it often needs action like this to cut through the carp.

panvulcon

Jeepers, that's really well put. I'll put this to them and hopefully start the ball rolling again. Many thanks.

Jeepers_Creepers

Gulp - no pressure... :-)  

I have found that, even tho' 'rules are rules', they are interpreted by humans with all their good and bad points. It is sooo easy, as in your case, for a lazy employee to just cite 'the rules', even tho' it's obvious that the WB is not even on top of their remit here, so a bit of pressure can often work wonders. Also, folk like MPs and top brass just hate being pestered repeatedly over the same issue, when they know there's an element there that they have failed to address.

In cases like this, I ask myself "is this unfair?". "Do I believe I have a valid case?". "Are they being unfair and unreasonable....?"  If so, I pursue it, and 8/10 times get a positive result. Which is what it should have been from the start.

If the answer is, no, I have no reasonable case, I leave it. Usually...

Jeepers_Creepers

Yes, the WB will certainly want to view and approve the trench - depth, protection for pipe (gravel, that sort of stuff) before they'd agree to connect - more so if DIYed.

Pan, you've taken 'copper' to the house wall, but you know it'll be MDPE from there onwards? What distance will the supply have to travel? This might determine what size pipe to use.

Meanwhile, don't worry too much about 'lead' - just run the cold tap to flush the pipes every morning if you wish. Are you in a hard or soft water area? Hard is 'better' as it coats the pipes, and 'soft' is more acidic so can - theoretically - take some lead into solution.

But I was brought up in an area with very acidic peaty soil (it would literally 'sting' cut skin) and the house was supplied by a lead pipe. Hasn't affected my mind at all. Hasn't affected my mind at all.