Breathing space

fatbelly

The proposals are for 60 days but discussions are ongoing.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2020/9780348209976/contents
https://wearedebtadvisers.uk/

New DRO rules should be coming in on the same day:

max 30k debt
surplus income 100 per month
asset limit 2k

Not set in stone yet though

Robinhoody

fatbelly said:

The proposals are for 60 days but discussions are ongoing.



New DRO rules should be coming in on the same day:

max 30k debt
surplus income 100 per month
asset limit 2k

Not set in stone yet though

There is a lot of confusion about the 60 days delay, that is the first option with mental health crisis 

you say the worst that could happen is 60 day delays but no the worst that could happen is the tenants qualify for breathing space and can not be evicted or have any enforcement for as long as the professional says they have the mental health crisis

fatbelly

Robinhoody said:

Not set in stone yet though

There is a lot of confusion about the 60 days delay, that is the first option with mental health crisis 

you say the worst that could happen is 60 day delays but no the worst that could happen is the tenants qualify for breathing space and can not be evicted or have any enforcement for as long as the professional says they have the mental health crisis

My guess is that it would be treated like Sharples v Places for People and  Godfrey v A2 Dominion but I really don't know the detail yet.

I've bookmarked this thread and when I find out more about how it will work, I'll post here. I should be getting some training from someone at some point hopefully, as I'll be expected to be running the scheme in 3 months

Robinhoody

fatbelly said:

Robinhoody said:

Not set in stone yet though

There is a lot of confusion about the 60 days delay, that is the first option with mental health crisis 

you say the worst that could happen is 60 day delays but no the worst that could happen is the tenants qualify for breathing space and can not be evicted or have any enforcement for as long as the professional says they have the mental health crisis

My guess is that it would be treated like Sharples v Places for People and  Godfrey v A2 Dominion but I really don't know the detail yet.

I've bookmarked this thread and when I find out more about how it will work, I'll post here. I should be getting some training from someone at some point hopefully, as I'll be expected to be running the scheme in 3 months

Thank you so much fat belly 

there is is a lot of talk about huge numbers of people thinking they can lease a car and not have to pay for and it can’t be taken off you, live somewhere rent free and never be evicted and have all their debts written off. Never pay phone bills or utilities and never be cut off, get a new iPhone 12 contract and stop paying for it but they are not allowed to turn it off ALL AS LONG AS YOU ARE DECLARED MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS by a qualified professional.

already the waiting list for seeing a mental health professional are at all time highs getting ready for May

Robinhoody

I've just been listening to Tessa's webinar with David Smith on the subject and it looks to me as though achieving one of these moratoriums would be pretty difficult for a tenant. A few interesting points I noted were:

1. Registered debt advisors are likely to be in high demand and getting an appointment could take some time
2. A tenant wouldn't qualify if they can't pay their ongoing rent
3. They are time limited and they can't have multiple breathing spaces
4. There is a half-way review and the landlord can also demand a review if they are in hardship
5. It doesn't stop the landlord pursuing the guarantor
6. It doesn't cancel the debt, although no interest can accumulate during the moratorium
7. A registered mental health practitioner can't make the decision, they have to recommend to the debt advisor
8. The tenant would have to be sectionable not just depressed.

Robinhoody

https://youtu.be/SZsytZeNRus

15 mins in he confirms the tenant doesn’t have to keep paying rent, they don’t have to pay anything, and in theory it could last years and years and years.

And that the tenants have to be in a mental health crisis where you have requested to go into hospital for your own safety or safety of the public i.e they say they were going to throw themselves in front of train or something because so much worry about debt

madaboutspots

I'm not as clued up on it as you guys as not a landlord anymore (thankfully!) but do take an interest in all things financial. It does seem to me that it's not going to be child's play to get this breathing space.... And isn't it only for the debts/back rent not the ongoing rent? So if they're behind on their rent you might struggle to get that back anytime soon but should be able to get future rent. 

Would you be able to get money out of the guarantor if they were helping/supporting the patient? I can imagine that being more tricky if there were a genuine health concern. If you can though it seems to lend itself more towards having a guarantor in more cases? 

Can you act more quickly with a tenant that falls into arrears? Pre-empt the non payment and consequent breathing space. If you can I can see this backfiring on tenants. 

Anyway, good luck. Minefield being a landlord. Not for the feint hearted. 

sixtyfoothigh

As someone who has long term mental health issues, if you need to get crisis service support and/or hospital inpatient services to recommend to a debt advisor that you get a "breathing space", I don't imagine these are going to be overused. My last bad episode was 2015 and I was "thinking I'm controlling airplanes with my mind" level of psychotic and even then it still didn't result in immediate support from crisis services, and when when they decided I needed hospital I still had to wait several days to get admitted (which was super fun for my poor husband to deal with). From mental health forums it's just got worse since then and some people are stuck dangerously unwell without hospital and/or sent half way across the country to find a bed. I'm just hoping my medication keeps me stable (as it has for the last few years) so I don't need to worry about needing support. Sx

madaboutspots

It's very serious when genuine people have significant mental health issues. None of us would wish to experience that and yet we are all susceptible to the possibility. Everyone has mental health. For the luckier ones we only suffer poor mental health for brief periods and not in any way extreme. I don't think there's any doubt about that.

Landlords though have their own unique issues to wrestle with. These days many people are able to be landlords without experience or vast sums of money behind them. Society still needs these people to rent out properties and give choice for tenants on where to live. That is how our society has evolved. There used to be council housing of course. For these people a tenant struggling to pay their rent can have a significant impact on the landlord's welfare and financial/mental health as well. The landlord gains nothing from a tenant unable to pay. The tenant gains nothing from a landlord looking to evict them without good/fair reason and sadly there are many unscrupulous tenants/landlords out there. It's always going to be a balancing act and everyone's baseline is around making sure they themselves can survive. 

Vulnerable people should really be given proper support but likewise, if the landlord through no fault of their own is left high and dry, they too need support. There is a lot of regulation being brought in to assist tenants, some of it, sadly, due to the appalling behaviour of scum landlords. The bad apples spoiling it for all. 

Robinhoody

madaboutspots said:

I'm not as clued up on it as you guys as not a landlord anymore (thankfully!) but do take an interest in all things financial. It does seem to me that it's not going to be child's play to get this breathing space.... And isn't it only for the debts/back rent not the ongoing rent? So if they're behind on their rent you might struggle to get that back anytime soon but should be able to get future rent. 

Would you be able to get money out of the guarantor if they were helping/supporting the patient? I can imagine that being more tricky if there were a genuine health concern. If you can though it seems to lend itself more towards having a guarantor in more cases? 

Can you act more quickly with a tenant that falls into arrears? Pre-empt the non payment and consequent breathing space. If you can I can see this backfiring on tenants. 

Anyway, good luck. Minefield being a landlord. Not for the feint hearted. 

The problem is even the guarantors can get breathing space, so having a guarantor is no less ne’er a guarantee, as stupid as that sounds