Central Heating System broken when inspected after buying.

[Deleted User]

Irishpearce26 said:

I would bite the bullet and get a decent boiler put in on the cost of the seller and pay for the pipe upgrade. Legally the seller doesn't have to tell you if anything is working or not its up to the buyer to figure this out through surveys. As another poster said its lucky this happened within your warranty timescale.

I suspect you’re unfamiliar with Scots Law as well. 

[Deleted User]

From edition 3 of the standard clauses (edition 4 coming into effect March 2021) for those unfamiliar with Scots Law. 

4 CENTRAL HEATING, SYSTEMS AND APPLIANCES

4.1 The Seller undertakes that any systems or appliances of a working nature (including central heating, water, drainage, electric and gas) forming part of the Property or included in the Price will be in working order commensurate with age as at the Date of Settlement.

4.2 The Seller will make good any defect which prevents any system or appliance being in such order provided said defect is intimated in writing within 5 working days of settlement. Failing such intimation, the Purchaser will be deemed to be satisfied as to the position.

4.3 The Seller will only be responsible for carrying out any necessary repairs to put any system or appliance into such order and shall have no liability for any element of upgrading (except to the extent such upgrading is required to put any such system or appliance into such order).

4.4 The lack of any regular service or maintenance of any system or appliance or the fact that it may no longer comply with current installation regulations shall not, of itself, be deemed to be a defect.

4.5 The Purchaser shall be entitled to execute any necessary repairs at the expense of the Seller without reference to the Seller or the Seller’s tradesmen (i) in the event of an emergency; (ii) in the event that the Seller’s tradesmen do not inspect the alleged defects within 5 working days of intimation; or (iii) in the event that any necessary repairs are not carried out within 5 working days of inspection.

4.6 The Seller confirms that he has received no notice or intimation from any third party that any system (or any part thereof) is in an unsafe or dangerous condition.

greatcrested

Thanks LOV - seems clear from OP's point of view.

macman

If only we could have these same t and c's south of the border! Clause 4.5 is particularly beneficial. That would appear to be game, set and match to the OP. 'System' clearly includes components external to the boiler, so covers the pump and supply pipework. Pump is a replacement, as is the gas valve; not an upgrade. Pipe is an upgrade; if it was legal at install, it is undersized now, and the RGI cannot recommission the boiler now knowing it to be so. So that's a necessary upgrade within the terms of the warranty.
OP, I'd push for the full cost of the above, and then spend it on a new boiler and the necessary supply upgrade. Better than wasting money on having the gas valve replaced on a boiler that is probably on it's last legs anyway.The only problem with those terms is that it prescribes no remedy if the vendor fails to pay up, so presumably you have to sue them anyway?

Irishpearce26

Lover_of_Lycra said:

From edition 3 of the standard clauses (edition 4 coming into effect March 2021) for those unfamiliar with Scots Law. 

4 CENTRAL HEATING, SYSTEMS AND APPLIANCES

4.1 The Seller undertakes that any systems or appliances of a working nature (including central heating, water, drainage, electric and gas) forming part of the Property or included in the Price will be in working order commensurate with age as at the Date of Settlement.

4.2 The Seller will make good any defect which prevents any system or appliance being in such order provided said defect is intimated in writing within 5 working days of settlement. Failing such intimation, the Purchaser will be deemed to be satisfied as to the position.

4.3 The Seller will only be responsible for carrying out any necessary repairs to put any system or appliance into such order and shall have no liability for any element of upgrading (except to the extent such upgrading is required to put any such system or appliance into such order).

4.4 The lack of any regular service or maintenance of any system or appliance or the fact that it may no longer comply with current installation regulations shall not, of itself, be deemed to be a defect.

4.5 The Purchaser shall be entitled to execute any necessary repairs at the expense of the Seller without reference to the Seller or the Seller’s tradesmen (i) in the event of an emergency; (ii) in the event that the Seller’s tradesmen do not inspect the alleged defects within 5 working days of intimation; or (iii) in the event that any necessary repairs are not carried out within 5 working days of inspection.

4.6 The Seller confirms that he has received no notice or intimation from any third party that any system (or any part thereof) is in an unsafe or dangerous condition.

I didn't realise it was so different to English law. Wish we had the same rights.
The only thing I can see here is the pipes are still in working order (albeit old as hell) and this could be the sticking point with the sellers stating that the new boiler will work with the old pipes as stated in 4.3. Again my understanding here is limited but just hazarding a guess. We are buying a house with the existing boiler (22 years old) which is a part exchange with a developer, i asked if we could have £3k off the price to ensure we had a working heating system which they granted.

Irishpearce26

Maybe propose to the sellers to have an independent plumber come and assess the pipes to confirm they are no longer fit for purpose. Are the sellers aware of the rights that @Lover_of_Lycra published? Maybe show them and highlight were they have no choice. Good luck i hope you get the outcome you deserve.

macman

An RGI has already inspected the system and decommissioned it due to the defects shown. No sane RGI will recommission it with an undersized supply, as he'd be fully legally liable for the ensuing disaster. The corrosion visible only strengthens that risk.
So, yes it 'will work' with a new boiler, but it's not going to happen: the upgrade is allowed for in the warranty because it is necessary to recommission the system legally. Clause 4.3 is unequivocal on this point:

4.3 The Seller will only be responsible for carrying out any necessary repairs to put any system or appliance into such order and shall have no liability for any element of upgrading (except to the extent such upgrading is required to put any such system or appliance into such order).

The OP#s conveyancer/solicitor simply needs to advise the vendor of their contractual committment, and the consequences of non-compliance. Of course, they may wish to compromise somewhere, but on the basis of the evidence presented, I would say that their case for the full cost is near water-tight.

letsbetfair

See what your conveyancer says OP. There probably is some scope for negotiation - you'll probably want a quality system put in, while the seller will want to pay for the cheapest  possible thing that meets their obligations...and extracting money from people can be a pain if they drag their feet. Hope you're able to get it sorted quickly and to your satisfaction!

By the way, your solicitor did well to keep that clause in the missives

dimbo61

" No ventilation in current back boiler "
Are you saying this is a back boiler ( tank ) in the chimney breast ?
Pipes not correct size ?
With a new modern combi boiler your now need a larger supply pipe 22mm I believe ( please feel free to correct me )
It is more energy efficient but needs a large gas pipe !
I think the seller knew there were problems with the old central heating hence trying to remove the 7 day guarantee from the documents.
I can only recommend Worcester Bosch or Vailliant boiler as Which best buys.
Welcome to the world of Home ownership 

dimbo61

https://www.boilerguide.co.uk/articles/replacing-central-heating-pipes#:~:text=The size will ultimately dictate,must be at least 22mm.