Stuck in 6 month meter reading dispute between 2 providers

niktheguru

I'm also a bit confused as to what exactly the question you are asking is.
You are talking about closing reading disputes and your 2 rate/eco7 electricity meter being faulty and then being replaced with a new 1 rate meter. Then you're talking about a very high bill.

From the one bill with green energy you've provided, the bulk of your spend is on your gas. This is an astronomical 19000KwH in under 3 months. The problem is this was based on a previous estimate compared with your final reading. When was the previous actual reading taken? You already said you dont take meter readings so I'm guessing there aren't many there to compare.

For a start you need to provide older bills from green energy network to establish how theyve been charging you for gas. This may just be under estimation over a 1 yr period, and now at the end its all caught up with you as your usage is higher than estimated over the rest of the year. (and you hadn't been giving regular readings) Alternatively it could be a massive mess up.
Need old bills, also need previous meter readings.

Don't complicate the matter by talking about your switch to igloo just yet. The opening and closing readings seem ok, you took photos and provided it to them, the "third party" has probably amended it slightly.  The dispute about your two rate meter not working properly is a tough one, you could argue it, but it will be difficult without previous meter reads to prove what you would have used at night compared to day.

Gerry1

Things don't look too bad.  TL;DR: keep sending monthly readings, make sure you payments are keeping up reasonably well with your usage and things should go smoothly.  As it's winter, you account may dip into debit but it will probably go back into credit in the summer if the DD is set correctly.  The same readings have been used by the old and new suppliers, so that's fine.

• You were on a horribly expensive tariff with GNE, but you changed to a competitive one with Igloo.
• You were on single rate with your black meter, which is good because you didn't need an E7 tariff with its relatively expensive day rates and not much benefit from the cheap night rates.
• You are probably now on a single rate electricity meter, which is fine.
• The Igloo lady may have been confused because you had a two register (black) meter and she doesn't realise you now have a single register (white) meter.
• What seems to have happened is that the low rate register on the black meter became stuck and they've guesstimated what they think you have used.  The meter may have stuck at 19,806kWh and they've guessed that it should have read 25,938kWh when it was replaced.  You'll have to go back through your old bills to see whether that figure is sensible, it depends how long it was stuck.
• Seems like you weren't sending gas readings, so GNE's estimated readings were too low and your reading on 16 June 2020 brought things back to reality with big bump.

clarestreets

Thank you for all taking the time to look at this.

I know I should have been providing regular reads and have certainly learnt a lesson. I just find it hard to believe that there can be an outstanding bill of £1200. There were some actual reads during my time with GNE (from October 2018) and they reviewed my monthly dd payments twice during that time. 

my monthly dd payments with igloo appear to be more than covering my consumption (even during the winter with everyone at home every day)

I have all my bills from GNE.

To be honest I find it all very confusing and no longer sure who to approach about what, it’s the two suppliers that have told me they need to challenge each other’s reads, replace meters etc

clarestreets

It looks like there have been guesstimates in the electricity read for a long time. But it seems that the high outstanding bill is a result of my gas usage which has had actual reads 

niktheguru

Sorry, it looks like all these charges are due to you not providing regular meter readings, and your usage just catching up on you. Both your gas and electric are based on estimates. 
You need to provide more older bills please.

Just look at this latest bill you've provided.
You took a reading  and used approx 583m3 of gas in a 3 month period from may to october
Before this, from an estimated reading in april, till your actual read in may they estimated you used 1745m3 (in a one month period) Then after your real read,  for a 6 month period (oct to apr) they estimate you only used 15m3!!
So the estimates are all WAY OFF. you will have used more than 15m3 gas, hence now your latest reads are MUCH HIGHER and so your bill is HIGHER. I suspect the bills are correct but rather than paying a higher amount monthly, you have been billed erratically for what you are actually using due to lack of meter readings.

If you give more bills we can investigate further.

Penelopa.Pitstop

If the Low reading on your electric meter didn't move, it's probably because economy 7 heating was disconnected and nothing used low tariff. Looking at your bill, it's estimated usage and your meter showed different, lower number. It's possible your meter wasn't broken at all, you just didn't use Economy 7 electricity at all, but you paid for it anyway, because you didn't take meter readings and company estimated usage and billed you for it.  Now it will impossible to fix it, as meter was changed and nothing can be proven.

 I was in similar situation, when after flat refurbishment, nothing was connected to Economy 7 and I was putting the same meter read every time, but energy company tried to generate estimate usage.

Gerry1

Penelopa.Pitstop said:

If the Low reading on your electric meter didn't move, it's probably because economy 7 heating was disconnected and nothing used low tariff. Looking at your bill, it's estimated usage and your meter showed different, lower number. It's possible your meter wasn't broken at all, you just didn't use Economy 7 electricity at all, but you paid for it anyway, because you didn't take meter readings and company estimated usage and billed you for it.  Now it will impossible to fix it, as meter was changed and nothing can be proven.

 I was in similar situation, when after flat refurbishment, nothing was connected to Economy 7 and I was putting the same meter read every time, but energy company tried to generate estimate usage.

No, Economy 7 doesn't work that way, the whole house is on the low rate overnight, not just the appliances connected to the circuit that's switched by the meter.  Unless the place is unoccupied, there will always be some low rate consumption: lighting, the fridge, the freezer, items on standby etc.  I don't have storage heaters and don't usually use the immersion heater but 22% of my usage is at night.

The stuck meter problem is likely to be one of two scenarios.

1. The low rate register became genuinely stuck, the OP had been getting free electricity every night and the supplier estimated the usage.  Unless they came up with a silly estimate, the OP hasn't lost out.
2. The separate timer had become jammed and was telling the meter that it was daytime throughout the 24 hours.  This means that the night usage was clocking up on the day register, so the OP has been overcharged by the difference between the low register's stuck last reading and GNE's estimated final reading.  We don't know when the register became stuck, but if it was at 19806kWh as in the photo then the overcharge works out at £1,066.

Our meter reading forumites may be able to advise about the likelihood of each event.  I suspect that '2' may more probable, especially if the timer was the rotating silver disc with a black semi-circle labelled 'Night' from 6pm - 6am.  The timer was probably the same vintage as the meter (34 years old) so it may have jammed.  Less likely if it was a radio teleswitch.

We'll never know because the meter and timeswitch have probably been scrapped or recycled.  However, the OP could look at all the old bills and see whether the daytime usage was higher than expected after the low rate register became stuck; if it ended up around 6,000kWh too high then the timer is a strong suspect.

If it looks like there's been an overcharge, the OP could submit a Subject Access Request to see what the report on the meter replacement said.  It could also be argued that because GNE has chosen to save money by not reading the meters that they must expect failures to occur, but that the customer should not be adversely affected hence any doubt should be resolved in the customer's favour.

Gerry1

Gerry1 said:

If it looks like there's been an overcharge, the OP could submit a Subject Access Request to see what the report on the meter replacement said.  It could also be argued that because GNE has chosen to save money by not reading the meters that they must expect failures to occur, but that the customer should not be adversely affected hence any doubt should be resolved in the customer's favour.

Whoops !  Green Network Energy have just gone bust so there won't be much mileage in pursuing them.

But the good news is that everything seems fair and square with Igloo so there's basically nothing to do except send meter readings every month and check the DDs are keeping up with usage.

clarestreets

Oh my goodness! How do you all know so much? ☺️

And GNE bust? Does that mean there will be no outstanding bill here? Or might they issue a bill but there will be no one to dispute with?

It seems there might be no point me sharing my GNE bills at this stage then I guess?

clarestreets

So here’s photos of all my GNE bills, it’s not looking good for meter reads. Though I might bizarrely have a video of the electricity meter that I’m just going to look for now