Petition to extend the SDLT holiday to be debated in Parliament on Monday

MaryNB

SpiderLegs said:

Oh Mary you’ve spoiled all the fun!

I'd be a bit more game if I hadn't just bought my first house... And that's partially because I've only just got over my fear of unemployment and house price crashes after emigrating as a result of the 2008 recession in Ireland. My nerves can't handle this kinda talk!

SpiderLegs

MaryNB said:

SpiderLegs said:

Oh Mary you’ve spoiled all the fun!

I'd be a bit more game if I hadn't just bought my first house... And that's partially because I've only just got over my fear of unemployment and house price crashes after emigrating as a result of the 2008 recession in Ireland. My nerves can't handle this kinda talk!

Yes you have to take it with a pinch of salt.
these HPC types like to pretend that they’re all about fairness and helping the common man at the expense of nasty bankers and baby boomers.
But underneath that veneer of morality they couldn’t give a stuff. All they want is for themselves personally to not have to save up. To be handed a nice big cheap house without any hard work.
They complain endlessly about about the ‘props’ which would actually help them in that regard.
They want to see you and everyone else who has put that effort in, suffer.
They don’t care that recessions hit the poorest hardest and large drops in house prices hurt high LTVers the hardest.
They are bitter and jealous.

noitsnotme

SpiderLegs said:

MaryNB said:

SpiderLegs said:

Oh Mary you’ve spoiled all the fun!

I'd be a bit more game if I hadn't just bought my first house... And that's partially because I've only just got over my fear of unemployment and house price crashes after emigrating as a result of the 2008 recession in Ireland. My nerves can't handle this kinda talk!

Yes you have to take it with a pinch of salt.
these HPC types like to pretend that they’re all about fairness and helping the common man at the expense of nasty bankers and baby boomers.
But underneath that veneer of morality they couldn’t give a stuff. All they want is for themselves personally to not have to save up. To be handed a nice big cheap house without any hard work.
They complain endlessly about about the ‘props’ which would actually help them in that regard.
They want to see you and everyone else who has put that effort in, suffer.
They don’t care that recessions hit the poorest hardest and large drops in house prices hurt high LTVers the hardest.
They are bitter and jealous.

Well said.  Many of them sold to rent years ago expecting a huge crash so they could buy at bargain basement prices.  Had that materialised for them, they would have been over the moon when the prices then inevitably increased.  They certainly wouldn’t have been championing continued low prices if they managed to get their budget share of the property pie.

As you say, bitter and jealous types who made the wrong call and now blame everyone/thing except themselves.

Crashy_Time

MaryNB said:

SpiderLegs said:

Oh Mary you’ve spoiled all the fun!

I'd be a bit more game if I hadn't just bought my first house... And that's partially because I've only just got over my fear of unemployment and house price crashes after emigrating as a result of the 2008 recession in Ireland. My nerves can't handle this kinda talk!

Seems to me you have just jumped out of one bubble into another one, at a very bad economic time?

Mickey666

Not really.  Try thinking of things from a different angle.
So, everyone needs somewhere to live and most people start off by renting their home.  This is going to cost them £x every single month for as long as they are alive.
Now think of a scheme by which you sign a contract for, say, 25 years at a cost of £y every month and at the end of that time you end up owning your own home with no more payments needed for the rest of your life.
Now imagine that £y was the same as £x (maybe a little more or a little less, but basically the same).
Would you choose to pay £y for the rest of your life or £x for only 25 years?

Note that I've not referred to the amount of the mortgage because in practice only the repayments matter.  Also note that I've not referred to the price of the property, because again in practice only the repayments matter.  It therefore follows that if the price of the property and the mortgage amount don't matter then 'negative equity' also doesn't matter.  Nor does it matter if house prices rise or if they crash.   As long as you make the monthly payments then your home is secure - which is always the case whether you're renting or buying.  But by buying instead of renting, you will only have find 25 years of payments instead of a whole lifetime of payments.

Of course, there are some nuances to the above, but the fundamental fact is that it's always going to be cheaper to buy your home than to rent one, over a lifetime.

jimbog

SpiderLegs said:

MaryNB said:

SpiderLegs said:

Oh Mary you’ve spoiled all the fun!

I'd be a bit more game if I hadn't just bought my first house... And that's partially because I've only just got over my fear of unemployment and house price crashes after emigrating as a result of the 2008 recession in Ireland. My nerves can't handle this kinda talk!

Yes you have to take it with a pinch of salt.
these HPC types like to pretend that they’re all about fairness and helping the common man at the expense of nasty bankers and baby boomers.
But underneath that veneer of morality they couldn’t give a stuff. All they want is for themselves personally to not have to save up. To be handed a nice big cheap house without any hard work.
They complain endlessly about about the ‘props’ which would actually help them in that regard.
They want to see you and everyone else who has put that effort in, suffer.
They don’t care that recessions hit the poorest hardest and large drops in house prices hurt high LTVers the hardest.
They are bitter and jealous.

Spot on. If you take a look at the HPC website (always an eye opener) there's little expectation of a drop anymore to pre-2005 levels but instead much speculation on possible quick returns on Bitcoins. So much discussion in fact that they had to merge threads on the subject.
It seems that many on there made unwise financial choices in the past and seem very angry

Crashy_Time

Mickey666 said:

Not really.  Try thinking of things from a different angle.
So, everyone needs somewhere to live and most people start off by renting their home.  This is going to cost them £x every single month for as long as they are alive.
Now think of a scheme by which you sign a contract for, say, 25 years at a cost of £y every month and at the end of that time you end up owning your own home with no more payments needed for the rest of your life.
Now imagine that £y was the same as £x (maybe a little more or a little less, but basically the same).
Would you choose to pay £y for the rest of your life or £x for only 25 years?

Note that I've not referred to the amount of the mortgage because in practice only the repayments matter.  Also note that I've not referred to the price of the property, because again in practice only the repayments matter.  It therefore follows that if the price of the property and the mortgage amount don't matter then 'negative equity' also doesn't matter.  Nor does it matter if house prices rise or if they crash.   As long as you make the monthly payments then your home is secure - which is always the case whether you're renting or buying.  But by buying instead of renting, you will only have find 25 years of payments instead of a whole lifetime of payments.

Of course, there are some nuances to the above, but the fundamental fact is that it's always going to be cheaper to buy your home than to rent one, over a lifetime.

Interesting take on things, I feel you may just be stretching what doesn`t matter a little far though? I think you will find that a lot of these things matter a lot to many people, and interest rates are the most important thing of all? If we are being honest most people now realise that cheap basic shelter is the best thing for hardworking hard money saving ordinary people, wouldn`t you agree?

Mickey666

The HPC website is a little bubble all of its own where they don't seem to tolerate any contrary opinions.
Still, if it makes them feel better, good for them, but wishful thinking won't change the fundamental realities of life.

Crashy_Time

Mickey666 said:

The HPC website is a little bubble all of its own where they don't seem to tolerate any contrary opinions.
Still, if it makes them feel better, good for them, but wishful thinking won't change the fundamental realities of life.

https://www.ft.com/content/4c866dc3-e3c4-41f8-99a8-d256e7923bd1

"President Xi Jinping said that houses were “for living in, not for speculation”."

LOL.

Mickey666

Crashy_Time said:

Mickey666 said:

Not really.  Try thinking of things from a different angle.
So, everyone needs somewhere to live and most people start off by renting their home.  This is going to cost them £x every single month for as long as they are alive.
Now think of a scheme by which you sign a contract for, say, 25 years at a cost of £y every month and at the end of that time you end up owning your own home with no more payments needed for the rest of your life.
Now imagine that £y was the same as £x (maybe a little more or a little less, but basically the same).
Would you choose to pay £y for the rest of your life or £x for only 25 years?

Note that I've not referred to the amount of the mortgage because in practice only the repayments matter.  Also note that I've not referred to the price of the property, because again in practice only the repayments matter.  It therefore follows that if the price of the property and the mortgage amount don't matter then 'negative equity' also doesn't matter.  Nor does it matter if house prices rise or if they crash.   As long as you make the monthly payments then your home is secure - which is always the case whether you're renting or buying.  But by buying instead of renting, you will only have find 25 years of payments instead of a whole lifetime of payments.

Of course, there are some nuances to the above, but the fundamental fact is that it's always going to be cheaper to buy your home than to rent one, over a lifetime.

Interesting take on things, I feel you may just be stretching what doesn`t matter a little far though? I think you will find that a lot of these things matter a lot to many people, and interest rates are the most important thing of all? If we are being honest most people now realise that cheap basic shelter is the best thing for hardworking hard money saving ordinary people, wouldn`t you agree?

These things certainly seem to matter a lot to you. 
And now you're saying that interest rates are the most important things of all . . . does that imply you agree that house prices themselves are less important, for the reasons I've mentioned?  I'd agree that interest rates are important but most people who had a mortgage through the 80s and into the 90s managed to survive double-digit interest rates relatively easily.  12%+ rates didn't seem to crash the housing market as far as I can remember.  Perhaps it's the AVAILABILITY of mortgages that's the most important factor.  As far as I can see, interest rates have never been lower and therefore have never been more affordable yet it doesn't seem to have gotten any easier to get a mortgage today.

So, again, in the context of renting-vs-buying, house prices and interest rates don't really matter - it will always be financially advantageous to buy a home rather than rent a home over a person's lifetime.

As for 'cheap basic shelter' being the best thing for 'ordinary people', how unambitiously patronising is that?!  And no, I don't agree.  We should be aiming for better quality housing for all.