Noise Nuisance/Flooring issues complain

AdrianC

magicmcone said:

The lease states:
”To keep the floors including stairs and landings (if any)substantially covered with suitable materials for reasonably minimising the transmission of noise to other dwellings”
As I said, we did change the flooring, but proper underlay with soundproofing properties was put. Also, if things get extreme, would rather install top quality underlay rather than carpet, due to the health issues that I mentioned.

Don’t mean that the complain is not genuine, I do believe that they must hear something but we never use any shoes at home. 

My other guess was if the complain was made when we did some renovations before moving in and was just picked up now, but doesn’t make much sense as it was 4 months ago and would not be related to the nature of the flooring.

For all you know, this is an ongoing complaint since before the flat changed hands...

"suitable materials for reasonably minimising the transmission of noise" is subjective. If the flat below you is complaining, then that test has not - by definition - been met.

Carpet and asthma are not mutually exclusive - hard flooring will still need hoovering regularly to collect the exact same amount of dust that's generated. OTOH, noise issues in flats are inherent, and hard flooring does inherently increase noise transmission, underlay merely reducing it.

Chandler85

If you had the cheapest carpet with no underlay (which some people have), then the noise will probably be horrendous but the council would enforce carpets to be laid it is to arbitrary, as they just assume it is hard flooring.

Talk to your neighbour, it might be in most rooms the flooring is fine but in one room there is an issue, speaking to them would help.

magicmcone

For all you know, this is an ongoing complaint since before the flat changed hands...

Yes, that is something that I agree I need to find out better when I contact them today.

I don’t agree however that the fact that someone has complained automatically means that I haven’t fulfilled  my responsibilities, I would expect for this to be assessed in a somewhat more impartial way.

Anyway, thanks also for your input, I will hopefully find out shortly as I am just waiting for 9 am to phone them.

princeofpounds

The noise issue may well be long-standing. Or, it may be that your lifestyle in the property is more noticeable to those downstairs. Or, they may realise you had new flooring installed and take it as an opportunity to bring the topic up again.

Having lived in a flat under another flat with hard flooring, I know what a nightmare it can be. Even innocuous activities can be tortuous... a child dropping a favourite marble was the real killer for me. TAP tap tap taptaptaptaptaptap every morning at 5.30am... over and over again.

The underlay you have installed is probably not bad underlay. And they are often marketed as 'noise-deadening'. But don't kid yourself that it's going to have the noise dampening qualities of wall-to-wall carpet with thick underlay; it doesn't.

The clause in the lease you highlight clearly could apply to your situation. Only a court would be able to determine what 'reasonable' means in this context unfortunately. Although I think you could make a few good arguments for your position, going to Tribunal would probably be a punishment in itself given the fees involved if you want a professional defence.

However, you're lucky in one respect. You've just moved in, and it's not like you replaced carpet with hard flooring. So go and talk to your neighbour. Tell them that you've only just moved in, that hard flooring was already in place. Pandemic and neighbour permitting, try to understand what they are experiencing (without promising an outcome) - listen whilst someone else walk and taps around in your flat upstairs. You may find that only certain areas are problems, or certain types of activities. You may realise it's horrendous. Or, you may realise it's totally exaggerated. That would give you a guide to next steps - where to put rugs, what noise to avoid, whether to ignore them or not. 

magicmcone

Chandler85 said:

If you had the cheapest carpet with no underlay (which some people have), then the noise will probably be horrendous but the council would enforce carpets to be laid it is to arbitrary, as they just assume it is hard flooring.

Talk to your neighbour, it might be in most rooms the flooring is fine but in one room there is an issue, speaking to them would help.

I would like to do this, but as I said, even if I assume is from directly downstairs, have no way to know for sure and a bit worried now to just knock on maybe the wrong door.

magicmcone

princeofpounds said:

The noise issue may well be long-standing. Or, it may be that your lifestyle in the property is more noticeable to those downstairs. Or, they may realise you had new flooring installed and take it as an opportunity to bring the topic up again.

Having lived in a flat under another flat with hard flooring, I know what a nightmare it can be. Even innocuous activities can be tortuous... a child dropping a favourite marble was the real killer for me. TAP tap tap taptaptaptaptaptap every morning at 5.30am... over and over again.

The underlay you have installed is probably not bad underlay. And they are often marketed as 'noise-deadening'. But don't kid yourself that it's going to have the noise dampening qualities of wall-to-wall carpet with thick underlay; it doesn't.

The clause in the lease you highlight clearly could apply to your situation. Only a court would be able to determine what 'reasonable' means in this context unfortunately. Although I think you could make a few good arguments for your position, going to Tribunal would probably be a punishment in itself given the fees involved if you want a professional defence.

However, you're lucky in one respect. You've just moved in, and it's not like you replaced carpet with hard flooring. So go and talk to your neighbour. Tell them that you've only just moved in, that hard flooring was already in place. Pandemic and neighbour permitting, try to understand what they are experiencing (without promising an outcome) - listen whilst someone else walk and taps around in your flat upstairs. You may find that only certain areas are problems, or certain types of activities. You may realise it's horrendous. Or, you may realise it's totally exaggerated. That would give you a guide to next steps - where to put rugs, what noise to avoid, whether to ignore them or not. 

Thanks for that as well. Will firstly call the council, but will go downstairs to try to have a chat then, even if unsure that it’s the actual flat that complained as it seemed the best way to try to solve things in the most civilised way.

davidmcn

AdrianC said:

magicmcone said:

The lease states:
”To keep the floors including stairs and landings (if any)substantially covered with suitable materials for reasonably minimising the transmission of noise to other dwellings”
As I said, we did change the flooring, but proper underlay with soundproofing properties was put. Also, if things get extreme, would rather install top quality underlay rather than carpet, due to the health issues that I mentioned.

Don’t mean that the complain is not genuine, I do believe that they must hear something but we never use any shoes at home. 

My other guess was if the complain was made when we did some renovations before moving in and was just picked up now, but doesn’t make much sense as it was 4 months ago and would not be related to the nature of the flooring.

"suitable materials for reasonably minimising the transmission of noise" is subjective.

What makes you say that? Reasonableness is generally an objective test - if the freeholder was intended to have complete discretion about approving the flooring, there'd be wording along those lines.

MovingForwards

I've got laminate and underlay down in my flat. I am fully aware of how much noise can stem from this and so don't walk around in any footwear aside from socks and slippers.

My neighbour below is still talking with me since I removed the carpet and underlay and I keep meaning to ask if the noise is ok. However it's only in the lounge and in office hours, when he is at work, the rest of the flat still has carpet. 

Having lived under a noisy family in my last rental, where everything could be heard, where things were bounced and scraped off and along the floor at all hours, I would hate to subject anyone to that.

Why not just knock on your neighbours door, have a chat and drop in conversation about if they can hear anything? 

magicmcone

So, I went down to speak with the neighbour and came back home even more confused!
She told me that she had had issues with the previous occupants and it was definitely much better with us, that she had reported over two months ago (I assume when renovations were taking place) but had not done so since.
Also tells me that she just wanted us to be mindful as in an old block like this one isolation was very poor so everything could be heard and that she was having the same issue with the neighbour down to her.
Also that it was really everyday noise, like talking, hoovering (I can also hear every neighbour around me doing so), or the piano (which is not in my flat but the flat next door) and “not to stress about it”, that she never thought that it would get that far! 😳
Really puzzled now, as she was very nice, but don’t feel comfortable taking the “not to stress about it” from someone who has previously reported me formally...

carefullycautious

If you let the council know that you have put sound proofing under your wood flooring I cannot see what the problem is. Normal everyday noises are allowed in the daytime. problems usually occur if it is night time noise. I would write to the council letting them know what type of flooring you have and that you have used sound proofing underlay and see if this is acceptable, explain that there was noise when you were refurbishing the flat but that has now stopped.
Your neighbour cannot stop people talking, hoovering or practicing the piano in the daytime.