Zwift on the cheap?

JustAnotherSaver

I say Zwift, maybe there's alternatives, I just mention it as that's the one I've heard about.

With gyms shut down and no signs of reopening any time soon, i've just been using a basic turbo trainer that has been loaned to us. I don't think there's anything fancy about it.

Rather than just being in the back room staring out of the window, I was wondering if i'd be more likely to get on the bike inside / go longer / be more interested if there was some kind of feedback ... like Zwift. I would've been out on the road this morning but it had decided to put some snow and ice down so thought better of it.

I'm sure you can spend hundreds or even thousands on a pro Zwift setup but in its most basic / cheapest form, what is actually needed to set it up?

Does my laptop need a certain feature to view the tracks on? Am i better off using my phone (as it mounts to the bike)?

My bike is a Trek-FX2 and on it is the bluetooth symbol but not entirely sure what this means as my phone certainly doesn't 'see' it.

[Deleted User]

To get the best out of Zwift you need a smart trainer, you can start at about £200 for a basic Tacx Flow trainer or work your way up to a Kickr core at £700 for a highly rated one or beyond. 

2 types of trainer, wheel on or wheel off. The wheel off ones are the best but more expensive. The wheel on trainers ideally need a training tyre fitted to your rear wheel.  

The smart trainer can be used with your phone or laptop as long as they have Bluetooth. You can use both in combination as well where the laptop shows the course and your phone will have some controls and data on the Zwift companion app. 

Ideally the laptop should have a dedicated graphics card for best visuals, even better when plugged into a big TV to immerse yourself in the course. 

I’ve got the Tacx flow and mostly use my iPhone XR on the handle bars and watch something on TV when I do my training although sometimes I’ll use my laptop on a scenic course. 

I’m not a roadie, I prefer my off road bikes for outdoors so I bought a cheap 2nd hand road bike for Zwift that is only ever used indoors.  

Just looked at prices for trainers, seem to have taken a leap due to lockdown, got my Tacx flow for £180 at Halfords 2 years ago but they look to be sold out everywhere and now £270

JustAnotherSaver

Hmm I was misinformed then it seems.

I already have a cheap turbo trainer. It looks a lot like this one https://www.amazon.co.uk/BDBikes-Bike-Magnetic-Turbo-Trainer/dp/B004JO23D0

I was lead to believe after this outlay then it could be done relatively cheaply but either i've understood wrong or they were wrong then.

Thanks anyway.

Johnmcl7

You can use a trainer like that with Zwift and the cheapest way to do it would be to add a speed sensor (I believe the cadence sensor is optional) to the bike, Zwift can use that data to work out how fast to make you go in game.  Conveniently your bike frame appears to have support for a sensor builtin which I think is the bluetooth symbol you're seeing, there is a speed/cadence sensor that can be fitted to your chainstay:

https://www.trekbikes.com/gb/en_GB/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-computers-sensors/bike-computer-sensors-accessories/bontrager-duotrap-digital-speed/cadence-sensor/p/08298/

I have a friend who uses Zwift this way who enjoys it although it's not one I've personally used.

The PC and Android requirements are here:
https://support.zwift.com/en_us/supported-devices-to-run-zwift-H1Cj9QbeB

Since Zwift is effectively a game with 3D graphics ideally you want something good at gaming but it should run on most PCs.  If you wanted to test this first there's a 'just watch' option in Zwift so you could try it on your laptop first and see how it performs.  Sensors can be ANT+ and/or bluetooth, older ones tend to be ANT+ which isn't as well supported on Android whereas on a PC you can easily add ANT+ to a PC via a dongle. 

This is quite a good intro to Zwift if you've not seen it in action yet:
https://youtu.be/5MI7Jfamd-Q 

I've seen recommendations for Bkool being better for individual scenic rides and it's cheaper per month but I didn't like having to enter CC details to try their demo and I was more drawn to Zwift since friends use it.

I've always been against indoor riding and preferred being outdoors normally having no problem riding through the winter but recently with not being able to ride with groups any more I was finding I just wasn't as motivated going outdoors as often plus it's just not as safe.  I started with Zwift three or so months ago and I've been surprised how much I've been enjoying it, I like challenging myself with choosing particular routes or similar so it's a lot more motivating.

[Deleted User]

If you want a really cheapo one, GCN do training videos from 15-60m which have a variety of different things going on to keep you interested like varied RPM training, endurance, HIIT etc.

CTXC (an Aussie cycling club) do training videos too which simulate pack riding i.e. 5/5 effort to get to the front for 2 minutes, then cruise at 3/5, rinse repeat.

There are also some good indoor cycling videos from 'Indoor Cycling Videos' channel which show rides from 60-120 minutes where you can watch the terrain go by and you can simulate the riding environment yourself e.g. put bike in a tough gear for climbing and high speed spinning for flats/descents in easy gears though they don't all give you guidance on gearing or RPM so you do have to make it up as you go along.

I think with indoor training my next step would be a power meter model but that's pretty expensive and often means swapping parts to bikes regularly whether pedals or cranks but would give you an idea about how you are improving

JustAnotherSaver

Thanks John. At our gym we have one of these: https://expresso.com/ And when doing the stationary bike i find it much better to be on this one than the traditional stationary bike. This is why i think i'd like Zwift.

Today was another day where I would've gone out but it was icy. The cars had iced overnight and to be honest it just isn't worth the risk to me. I'm ridiculously accident prone so i just don't chance going out in it and coming off my bike when going at pace downhill.

I'll take a look and price up. Thanks.

Johnmcl7

Deleted_User said:

I think with indoor training my next step would be a power meter model but that's pretty expensive and often means swapping parts to bikes regularly whether pedals or cranks but would give you an idea about how you are improving 

A direct drive trainer would give you accurate power measurement from the trainer itself rather than the bike so there would be no need to change parts between bikes.  They start at around £550 with the Tacx Flux which isn't cheap but then even a basic left only crank power meter is around £300 and the direct drive trainers bring other advantages.  You don't get comparative power output when off the trainer although I've not found that useful personally because when I'm riding outdoors it's difficult to maintain a constant pace with traffic lights, junctions, cars, steep downhill sections etc. which means lifting off the pressure and dropping the average power.  On the trainer since it's a completely controlled environment you can work on sustained power output.

I needed a power meter for the Zwift set up I wanted although I'm not a high power rider I am finding it more useful than expect to get the instant power output so I can accurately measure my pace and see when I'm slacking off too much or need to ease off.  It's a much accurate way to gauge ride effort than heartrate which I knew wasn't that useful anyway but surprised how different it is to the power output,  Depending on how serious you're taking the indoor rides it's definitely worth considering.

[Deleted User]

Johnmcl7 said:

Deleted_User said:

I think with indoor training my next step would be a power meter model but that's pretty expensive and often means swapping parts to bikes regularly whether pedals or cranks but would give you an idea about how you are improving 

A direct drive trainer would give you accurate power measurement from the trainer itself rather than the bike so there would be no need to change parts between bikes.  They start at around £550 with the Tacx Flux which isn't cheap but then even a basic left only crank power meter is around £300 and the direct drive trainers bring other advantages.  You don't get comparative power output when off the trainer although I've not found that useful personally because when I'm riding outdoors it's difficult to maintain a constant pace with traffic lights, junctions, cars, steep downhill sections etc. which means lifting off the pressure and dropping the average power.  On the trainer since it's a completely controlled environment you can work on sustained power output.

I needed a power meter for the Zwift set up I wanted although I'm not a high power rider I am finding it more useful than expect to get the instant power output so I can accurately measure my pace and see when I'm slacking off too much or need to ease off.  It's a much accurate way to gauge ride effort than heartrate which I knew wasn't that useful anyway but surprised how different it is to the power output,  Depending on how serious you're taking the indoor rides it's definitely worth considering.

What I mean is, there is no use having it just on one bike on the trainer when I have 2 other bikes, one of which would be useful to have power readings when on long rides, the other perhaps for when I take it on bike trails, coupled with a bike computer out and about to see if I am improving when I do a loop I do often. Just having it on the trainer when I can mash out power for an hour doesn't give me useful data vs when on a 5 hour ride outside. On the trainer I can just use a spreadsheet and check the same workout I did before to see if I am doing more mileage, lower HR, better cadence etc so having a real world comparison would be far more useful but of course means buying 2x power measuring tools.

Johnmcl7

I thought exactly the same about about power meters and it's one of the reasons I fitted one to the bike so I could measure my power outdoors as well.  However I just don't find the numbers are much use,  I've done identical loops in the same week and my power is quite different because the conditions are not the same and they never will be whereas on the trainer they're perfectly consistent.  Also unlike the trainer I can't use the power readings to increase or decrease my power because I might be waiting for a car or at a junction so the sustained reading takes a hit through no fault of my riding.

I don't regret the power meter because the type of trainer I use can't have accurate power measurement but I certainly wouldn't have chosen one specifically for outdoor riding.  Your money and your choice of course but it's a lot of money for something that I don't think will be as useful as you think.

[Deleted User]

Johnmcl7 said:

I thought exactly the same about about power meters and it's one of the reasons I fitted one to the bike so I could measure my power outdoors as well.  However I just don't find the numbers are much use because the conditions aren't consistent enough so I can end up with poorer power readings because there was more traffic or the weather.  I've done identical loops and my power is quite different because the conditions are not the same and they never will be whereas on the trainer they're perfectly consistent.

I don't regret the power meter because I had to buy one since the type of trainer I use doesn't allow for reliable power readings but wouldn't have bothered otherwise.  I'm extremely surprised you're not finding power readings on the trainer much use given 'mashing for an hour' is pretty much exactly what power meters are useful for and get less so over longer durations.

What I mean is, on the trainer I tend to do sessions from GCN usually, anything from 20-60 minutes, the 60 one I do is an endurance trainer, basically 3m at 110 rpm, 3m at 100rpm etc down to 50, then break, then 4m at 60, all the way up to 110 again. That isn't likely to give me data that is really useful for the real world from a power meter vs simply seeing if I did better than the last time I did it. I was doing some CTXC videos before which are basically simulations of pack riding typically 40s-2m in the pack, then the same pushing harder to get to the front, then repeating which would probably give useful data from a power meter as it's more akin to real world riding. Some of the training videos where you are supposed to be working at say 6/10 effort - that would be useful to have data for as I just work on gears and sense, not any real data e.g. 10/10 is 52/11 at or easier gear but higher cadence - I suspect my training would gain more from having power meter to ensure I am working at the right output level and not going too easy or too hard. I suspect I actually train too hard on the turbo as there are sessions where there is a 1/10 recovery for example, and I'm doing it in say 52/23 or 26 perhaps and the guys on screen are doing it on the small ring at the front but as I don't get worn out I keep doing it

I know what you mean about cars etc but I have loops on country roads where I rarely need to slow for traffic, I have one that is about 5.5 miles that I tend to average 17-18 minutes with a couple of small climbs so I might do that say 3-5 times before going home hence the output on power might well be more useful.

I think a pedal power meter would give the best results for me, the problem is that I have never had the bike on my turbo properly fitted and I am loath to start smashing out 100+ RPM on it and knacker my knees, the flats I have on there seem more comfy, whereas my commuter and main road bike I have had fitted so I am happy riding clipless

Herzlos

It's also worth noting that the wheel off trainers are usually for 9+ speed rear cassettes and will need a new cassette. It does mean that if you've got a 7/8 speed (Tourney/Claris) rear then you're going to have some compromise and bad gearing.

They are more suited for a spare bike as having to take the wheel on/off to take the bike outside is a lot more hassle that detaching from a wheel on trainer.

Just an ANT+ speed sensor (from about £15 on eBay) which clips round the rear hub should be enough to get you up and running in Zwift.

I went down a different route and stick a film on when I'm on the trainer, since it's about the only peace I get