Have I forgotten anything?

jimbob_3

Hi, 
I am trying to find a new desktop and printer for a not for tech savvy older relative (ie they have been using a PC and email for years but can't do much more than that) , but , for obvious reasons, I am unable to visit to help them set anything up.
For these reasons I think am going to suggest this AIO machine
HP 24-df0064na 23.8" All-in-One PC
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/desktop-pcs/desktop-pcs/hp-24-df0064na-23-8-all-in-one-pc-intel-core-i5-256-gb-ssd-white-10213265-pdt.html
and this printer
MFC-J491DW Wireless 4-in-1 Inkjet Printer
https://www.brother.co.uk/printers/inkjet-printers/mfc-j491dw#specifications
As they will probably want to use word I guess I will need to get them some version of office (there are two of them in the house but I am sure a one person version would be fine) -
so any suggestions on the best version to buy would be useful - as I say they are not very tech savvy so I can't offer them anything that is not microsoft!
Also, is there anything else that they will need that I have forgotten about?

Thanks

lr1277

Will the intended users be able to set up networking themselves, especially if the the broadband router has a password?

How about anti-virus/internet security?

I find it harder and harder (though not impossible) to get a one-off purchase of MS Office. Microsoft want users to pay a yearly licence fee. Will the intended users be up for that?

I have setup VNC Server on my parents' computer and have VNC client on my phone (never used) and my computer. However I sent up VNC server long before covid lockdowns. Some people say there are security issues with VNC and prefer to use Microsoft Team Viewer.

HTH

HereToday

lr1277 said:

Will the intended users be able to set up networking themselves, especially if the the broadband router has a password?

How about anti-virus/internet security?

I find it harder and harder (though not impossible) to get a one-off purchase of MS Office. Microsoft want users to pay a yearly licence fee. Will the intended users be up for that?

I have setup VNC Server on my parents' computer and have VNC client on my phone (never used) and my computer. However I sent up VNC server long before covid lockdowns. Some people say there are security issues with VNC and prefer to use Microsoft Team Viewer.

HTH

When did Microsoft acquire TeamViewer?
Easy to buy a one-off purchase of Office. Try eBay for instance.

Windows 10 has a built-in anti-virus. Couple with the extra security some Browsers offer, it's usually enough.

HereToday

jimbob_3 said:

Hi, 
I am trying to find a new desktop and printer for a not for tech savvy older relative (ie they have been using a PC and email for years but can't do much more than that) , but , for obvious reasons, I am unable to visit to help them set anything up.
For these reasons I think am going to suggest this AIO machine
HP 24-df0064na 23.8" All-in-One PC
https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/computing/desktop-pcs/desktop-pcs/hp-24-df0064na-23-8-all-in-one-pc-intel-core-i5-256-gb-ssd-white-10213265-pdt.html
and this printer
MFC-J491DW Wireless 4-in-1 Inkjet Printer
https://www.brother.co.uk/printers/inkjet-printers/mfc-j491dw#specifications
As they will probably want to use word I guess I will need to get them some version of office (there are two of them in the house but I am sure a one person version would be fine) -
so any suggestions on the best version to buy would be useful - as I say they are not very tech savvy so I can't offer them anything that is not microsoft!
Also, is there anything else that they will need that I have forgotten about?

Thanks

Have you actually found the AIO available for purchase?

It was something that was on offer last year; so doubt if there are many left hanging around now: https://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/hp-24-df0064na-238-all-in-one-pc-intel-core-i5-10400t-hexacore-256-gb-ssd-white-ps494-delivered-at-curry-pc-world-3594310

HereToday

Another option: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LENOVO-IdeaCentre-AIO-3i-27-All-in-One-PC-Intel-Core-i5-Black/353353537456

Full specs: https://psref.lenovo.com/Detail/IdeaCentre/IdeaCentre_AIO_3_27IMB05?M=F0EY0052UK

HP specs: https://support.hp.com/th-en/document/c06920648

Though please do not assume that I am recommending an AIO. First thing I would do it to extend the Lenovo warranty(not Currys) to the max if possible.
But an issue might be that certain devices are exclusive to Currys.

Neil_Jones

lr1277 said:

I have setup VNC Server on my parents' computer and have VNC client on my phone (never used) and my computer. However I sent up VNC server long before covid lockdowns. Some people say there are security issues with VNC and prefer to use Microsoft Team Viewer.

HTH

Depends on the flavour of VNC you've used.  The project has been forked a few times and there are various implementations, some of which are more insecure than others.  TightVNC for example doesn't encrypt anything par the passwords used so its probably only better for "local" traffic, whereas UltraVNC does, but that makes it incompatible with the other variations.  Otherwise in their default state one VNC viewer/host can talk to any of the others if there is no encryption.  If you can tunnel VNC through SSH or some other method it's preferable, but of course that adds extra complications.

Coming back to the OP, would it not be easier to set up the printer on the PC with USB before you drop it off?  If they are only going to print from that one computer that'll be easier to do.  Set up remote desktop software too (Windows 10 Pro and higher has it, but Home doesn't) and you can get in when you need to.  Teamviewer is the best known but there are others.

HereToday

Neil_Jones said:

lr1277 said:

I have setup VNC Server on my parents' computer and have VNC client on my phone (never used) and my computer. However I sent up VNC server long before covid lockdowns. Some people say there are security issues with VNC and prefer to use Microsoft Team Viewer.

HTH

Depends on the flavour of VNC you've used.  The project has been forked a few times and there are various implementations, some of which are more insecure than others.  TightVNC for example doesn't encrypt anything par the passwords used so its probably only better for "local" traffic, whereas UltraVNC does, but that makes it incompatible with the other variations.  Otherwise in their default state one VNC viewer/host can talk to any of the others if there is no encryption.  If you can tunnel VNC through SSH or some other method it's preferable, but of course that adds extra complications.

Coming back to the OP, would it not be easier to set up the printer on the PC with USB before you drop it off?  If they are only going to print from that one computer that'll be easier to do.  Set up remote desktop software too (Windows 10 Pro and higher has it, but Home doesn't) and you can get in when you need to.  Teamviewer is the best known but there are others.

Inexpensive to upgrade to Pro. Usually less than £10 via eBay.

jimbob_3

Thanks for the comments & the idea to go via ebay for a copy of office.
Unfortunately I can't get there to set it up (as somebody suggested), otherwise things would be much simpler (sigh!)
Also, good spot that the one I wanted is no longer available (at least not for delivery) from currys
I asked if they wanted a used machine, and they insisted they wanted to buy new (apparently they have budgeted £1,000 for everything - PC, printer, Office etc! )
I noticed the lenovo ideacentre that was suggested, is available on amazon for £749.99
Is it worth getting at that price?
It seems a little expensive for what it is, but I guess it is still within budget.

CoastingHatbox

Sorry if the following sounds blunt, but its really important.

Don't expose Windows RDP directly to the internet (port forward from a router). It will be brute forced giving hackers remote access to the machine.

Install TeamViewer on the machine instead. Don't configure TeamViewer for unattended access. Don't set TeamViewer to run automatically. When you need to do some remote support, you will have to ask the end user to start TeamViewer, and provide you with the automatically generated password. It is far safer to have it running only when it is needed.

There isn't a real low cost, secure and easy option for providing remote support as yet, the above is probably the best "convenient" method of doing it with Windows.

You could pay for a singe seat GoToAssist license, but I can't imagine you would want to go to that expense. Windows RDP is a good option, if you are able to use an SSH tunnel or VPN to connect to your parents home network and RDP into the machine over the tunnel.

You could also look at Microsoft Remote Assistance (always found it difficult to talk users through setting it up) and there is also Quick Assist, which I haven't tried yet but looks like it works in a similar fashion to TeamViewer.

When you set the machine up, I would start with a clean install of Microsoft Windows (use the Windows 10 Media Creation tool) and then use device manage to ensure all the specific drivers the machine needs gets installed. This will remove the skunkware that comes preloaded on a new consumper machine which generally causes older people confusion and just gets in the way anyway. In terms of software, LibreOffice is fine for 99% of people. Don't forget perhaps to install Firefox or Chrome and a PDF viewer. Defender is a fine choice for antivirus. Pin icons for software your older relative is likely to use on the desktop and prominently on the task bar, including LibreOffice Writer etc.

The chances are they my want access to their email setup with the built in mail app. If you use something else (Thunderbird for instance), don't forget to pin it prominently so the built in mail app doesn't cause confusion.

I think thats about it. You might want to have a think about how files are going to get backed up for when you get the inevitable support call. Maybe Microsoft OneDrive is sufficient if they are signing into the machine with a Microsoft account. I'm not sure - I setup NextCloud on my relatives machines and redirect the downloads, pictures, documents folders etc. to NextCloud folders. That synchronises their data 'off-site' with the NextCloud server and I take daily backups of the NextCloud server.

Aside: At my mothers, I have an Intel Atom NUC setup which I can SSH into. That runs a dynamic DNS client so I can run continuous monitoring (ping) against her Internet connection. It also runs a Zabbix proxy for some basic monitoring on her network, and allows me to do things like securely connect to her router over an SSH tunnel and run firmware upgrades. It has been very useful in this pandemic situation.

jimbob_3

Hi,
thanks for this -
very useful, although as I can't get there, they will just have to rely on phone calls for a while.
Fortunately they have Gmail / Yahoo email so should be fine in that respect.
And not sure they have many files 
but that makes me think of another potential dilemma, what is the simplest way to get any files or photos from their existing PC to the new one?
A SIMPLE hard drive, (any recommendations?)
or a simple cloud system (though I can imagine they may not be too happy with the thought of using a cloud!)
Any thoughts on that lenovo machine?
Thanks

J_B

jimbob_3 said:

Unfortunately I can't get there to set it up (as somebody suggested), otherwise things would be much simpler (sigh!)

What I did in lockdown1 was - ordered 'new' PC from eBay and had it delivered here.

Set it all up as my 'client' asked. I think I even put Office 2016 on it, that some kind person (on here) gave me a key to

Boxed it all back up and posted it to them