Replacing plugs and coil

williamgriffin

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

Thanks tacpot12. The problem was with the engine fault  and icon popping up on the dashboard. In December while driving, I didn't want to risk it and called roadside assistance who initially diagnosed mass air flow problem (sensor) and combustion misfiring (cylinder 1). The garage now told me that these could be the reasons but it could be anything else relating to the engine icon coming up. They had my car for the last couple of days as couldn't do diagnostic yesterday (small garage so car outside and it was raining) so I assume they're doing it today. Yesterday they called me and explained that the worst case scenario would be to change the timing belt but that's a very worst case. They checked the plugs and suggested changing them with coil as a first step so it doesn't seem to me as they're 100% sure what causes the problem with the engine. My worry is exactly what you say, that they're unable to figure out and will be trying which may be few different bits each costing me and in total would be as much as the car is worth. Perhaps I will message them and find out if this is because they actually we're unable to find the problem.

What's the timing belt got to do with it? Personally I'd find another garage. 

Don't ask me. I have no idea. 😉😂 I am just saying what they told me over the phone. It was a worst case scenario they said. I just replied to them to clarify if by '1st attempt' they mean they were unable to find the problem because of this doesn't work I don't want to pay in total more than what the car is worth. 🤪

Timing belts are replaced on age or mileage and if correctly set will not have any effect on the running of the engine. At 9-10 years old I would hope it's been changed at some point and may be due again.

It sounds like they are guessing at the solution rather than knowing.

I just spoke to the man who explained to me everything. He said if I want to try the dealer I can, will obviously pay more and they will tell me what to fix. I can then go back to them or any other garage to get it fixed. However, he told me that if I want to go through garages, each will have a similar procedure of starting with the part that is the cheapest if not sure. He admitted my car's situation is not as straight forward and said they have a policy of not charging the diagnostic fee if they're not happy with the results. He said they have three machines, used two of them and both showed there is a problem with cylinder 3. He cannot promise me that changing plugs will fix it but they're old and need replacing. If I want to go ahead they will do it in half an hour and then take the car for a half an hour test drive, reset the lights and so on. What do you think?

So recovery scanned it and it showed an air flow error on cylinder 1. Sounds like a new sensor may be required.

Now your garage want to change the plugs and coil for an error on cylinder 3. What diagnostics did they do?

By all means spend the best part of £200 to new plugs and coil, but what if there's still a problem and they want another £150 for a sensor?

A £100 diagnostic check at a dealer and £150 for a sensor could well be the cheaper option. 

williamgriffin

Where is Fred when we need him?

PawelK

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

Thanks tacpot12. The problem was with the engine fault  and icon popping up on the dashboard. In December while driving, I didn't want to risk it and called roadside assistance who initially diagnosed mass air flow problem (sensor) and combustion misfiring (cylinder 1). The garage now told me that these could be the reasons but it could be anything else relating to the engine icon coming up. They had my car for the last couple of days as couldn't do diagnostic yesterday (small garage so car outside and it was raining) so I assume they're doing it today. Yesterday they called me and explained that the worst case scenario would be to change the timing belt but that's a very worst case. They checked the plugs and suggested changing them with coil as a first step so it doesn't seem to me as they're 100% sure what causes the problem with the engine. My worry is exactly what you say, that they're unable to figure out and will be trying which may be few different bits each costing me and in total would be as much as the car is worth. Perhaps I will message them and find out if this is because they actually we're unable to find the problem.

What's the timing belt got to do with it? Personally I'd find another garage. 

Don't ask me. I have no idea. 😉😂 I am just saying what they told me over the phone. It was a worst case scenario they said. I just replied to them to clarify if by '1st attempt' they mean they were unable to find the problem because of this doesn't work I don't want to pay in total more than what the car is worth. 🤪

Timing belts are replaced on age or mileage and if correctly set will not have any effect on the running of the engine. At 9-10 years old I would hope it's been changed at some point and may be due again.

It sounds like they are guessing at the solution rather than knowing.

I just spoke to the man who explained to me everything. He said if I want to try the dealer I can, will obviously pay more and they will tell me what to fix. I can then go back to them or any other garage to get it fixed. However, he told me that if I want to go through garages, each will have a similar procedure of starting with the part that is the cheapest if not sure. He admitted my car's situation is not as straight forward and said they have a policy of not charging the diagnostic fee if they're not happy with the results. He said they have three machines, used two of them and both showed there is a problem with cylinder 3. He cannot promise me that changing plugs will fix it but they're old and need replacing. If I want to go ahead they will do it in half an hour and then take the car for a half an hour test drive, reset the lights and so on. What do you think?

So recovery scanned it and it showed an air flow error on cylinder 1. Sounds like a new sensor may be required.

Now your garage want to change the plugs and coil for an error on cylinder 3. What diagnostics did they do?

By all means spend the best part of £200 to new plugs and coil, but what if there's still a problem and they want another £150 for a sensor?

A £100 diagnostic check at a dealer and £150 for a sensor could well be the cheaper option. 

Thanks again. I did question that with him as the roadside assistance showed mass air flow problem and suggested sensor may need replacing but when we restarted the engine and stepped on accelerator so he can hear the engine working he then said it is probably combustion misfiring and cylinder 1 which could be an underlaying problem of the mass air flow. Mechanic today explained to me that it is possible that what's showing now as a problem could be not showing back then on that day and to be frank it would make sens even to a newbie like me. The guy at roadside assistance surely wouldn't have the same computers with him as the ones on the garage, right? Hence Id expect garage to have more thorough diagnostic. Mechanic also told me the two names of American computers he uses but I didn't make a note of them as I didn't think this details was necessary.

williamgriffin

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

Thanks tacpot12. The problem was with the engine fault  and icon popping up on the dashboard. In December while driving, I didn't want to risk it and called roadside assistance who initially diagnosed mass air flow problem (sensor) and combustion misfiring (cylinder 1). The garage now told me that these could be the reasons but it could be anything else relating to the engine icon coming up. They had my car for the last couple of days as couldn't do diagnostic yesterday (small garage so car outside and it was raining) so I assume they're doing it today. Yesterday they called me and explained that the worst case scenario would be to change the timing belt but that's a very worst case. They checked the plugs and suggested changing them with coil as a first step so it doesn't seem to me as they're 100% sure what causes the problem with the engine. My worry is exactly what you say, that they're unable to figure out and will be trying which may be few different bits each costing me and in total would be as much as the car is worth. Perhaps I will message them and find out if this is because they actually we're unable to find the problem.

What's the timing belt got to do with it? Personally I'd find another garage. 

Don't ask me. I have no idea. 😉😂 I am just saying what they told me over the phone. It was a worst case scenario they said. I just replied to them to clarify if by '1st attempt' they mean they were unable to find the problem because of this doesn't work I don't want to pay in total more than what the car is worth. 🤪

Timing belts are replaced on age or mileage and if correctly set will not have any effect on the running of the engine. At 9-10 years old I would hope it's been changed at some point and may be due again.

It sounds like they are guessing at the solution rather than knowing.

I just spoke to the man who explained to me everything. He said if I want to try the dealer I can, will obviously pay more and they will tell me what to fix. I can then go back to them or any other garage to get it fixed. However, he told me that if I want to go through garages, each will have a similar procedure of starting with the part that is the cheapest if not sure. He admitted my car's situation is not as straight forward and said they have a policy of not charging the diagnostic fee if they're not happy with the results. He said they have three machines, used two of them and both showed there is a problem with cylinder 3. He cannot promise me that changing plugs will fix it but they're old and need replacing. If I want to go ahead they will do it in half an hour and then take the car for a half an hour test drive, reset the lights and so on. What do you think?

So recovery scanned it and it showed an air flow error on cylinder 1. Sounds like a new sensor may be required.

Now your garage want to change the plugs and coil for an error on cylinder 3. What diagnostics did they do?

By all means spend the best part of £200 to new plugs and coil, but what if there's still a problem and they want another £150 for a sensor?

A £100 diagnostic check at a dealer and £150 for a sensor could well be the cheaper option. 

Thanks again. I did question that with him as the roadside assistance showed mass air flow problem and suggested sensor may need replacing but when we restarted the engine and stepped on accelerator so he can hear the engine working he then said it is probably combustion misfiring and cylinder 1 which could be an underlaying problem of the mass air flow. Mechanic today explained to me that it is possible that what's showing now as a problem could be not showing back then on that day and to be frank it would make sens even to a newbie like me. The guy at roadside assistance surely wouldn't have the same computers with him as the ones on the garage, right? Hence Id expect garage to have more thorough diagnostic. Mechanic also told me the two names of American computers he uses but I didn't make a note of them as I didn't think this details was necessary.

Snap On?

Again it's possible the recovery operator had a better diagnostic tool, without knowing who they were or what your garage used we'd be guessing like your mechanic appea s to be. 

PawelK

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

Thanks tacpot12. The problem was with the engine fault  and icon popping up on the dashboard. In December while driving, I didn't want to risk it and called roadside assistance who initially diagnosed mass air flow problem (sensor) and combustion misfiring (cylinder 1). The garage now told me that these could be the reasons but it could be anything else relating to the engine icon coming up. They had my car for the last couple of days as couldn't do diagnostic yesterday (small garage so car outside and it was raining) so I assume they're doing it today. Yesterday they called me and explained that the worst case scenario would be to change the timing belt but that's a very worst case. They checked the plugs and suggested changing them with coil as a first step so it doesn't seem to me as they're 100% sure what causes the problem with the engine. My worry is exactly what you say, that they're unable to figure out and will be trying which may be few different bits each costing me and in total would be as much as the car is worth. Perhaps I will message them and find out if this is because they actually we're unable to find the problem.

What's the timing belt got to do with it? Personally I'd find another garage. 

Don't ask me. I have no idea. 😉😂 I am just saying what they told me over the phone. It was a worst case scenario they said. I just replied to them to clarify if by '1st attempt' they mean they were unable to find the problem because of this doesn't work I don't want to pay in total more than what the car is worth. 🤪

Timing belts are replaced on age or mileage and if correctly set will not have any effect on the running of the engine. At 9-10 years old I would hope it's been changed at some point and may be due again.

It sounds like they are guessing at the solution rather than knowing.

I just spoke to the man who explained to me everything. He said if I want to try the dealer I can, will obviously pay more and they will tell me what to fix. I can then go back to them or any other garage to get it fixed. However, he told me that if I want to go through garages, each will have a similar procedure of starting with the part that is the cheapest if not sure. He admitted my car's situation is not as straight forward and said they have a policy of not charging the diagnostic fee if they're not happy with the results. He said they have three machines, used two of them and both showed there is a problem with cylinder 3. He cannot promise me that changing plugs will fix it but they're old and need replacing. If I want to go ahead they will do it in half an hour and then take the car for a half an hour test drive, reset the lights and so on. What do you think?

So recovery scanned it and it showed an air flow error on cylinder 1. Sounds like a new sensor may be required.

Now your garage want to change the plugs and coil for an error on cylinder 3. What diagnostics did they do?

By all means spend the best part of £200 to new plugs and coil, but what if there's still a problem and they want another £150 for a sensor?

A £100 diagnostic check at a dealer and £150 for a sensor could well be the cheaper option. 

Thanks again. I did question that with him as the roadside assistance showed mass air flow problem and suggested sensor may need replacing but when we restarted the engine and stepped on accelerator so he can hear the engine working he then said it is probably combustion misfiring and cylinder 1 which could be an underlaying problem of the mass air flow. Mechanic today explained to me that it is possible that what's showing now as a problem could be not showing back then on that day and to be frank it would make sens even to a newbie like me. The guy at roadside assistance surely wouldn't have the same computers with him as the ones on the garage, right? Hence Id expect garage to have more thorough diagnostic. Mechanic also told me the two names of American computers he uses but I didn't make a note of them as I didn't think this details was necessary.

Snap On?

Again it's possible the recovery operator had a better diagnostic tool, without knowing who they were or what your garage used we'd be guessing like your mechanic appea s to be. 

The only problem I have with going to a dealer is that I'll pay much more for diagnostic and it doesn't guarantee me that they will actually find the exact problem of the car (maybe even more than the garage?). Am I wrong assuming that or are the dealers can guarantee 'no diagnosis, no fee'? I doubt it. 🤔

williamgriffin

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

williamgriffin said:

PawelK said:

Thanks tacpot12. The problem was with the engine fault  and icon popping up on the dashboard. In December while driving, I didn't want to risk it and called roadside assistance who initially diagnosed mass air flow problem (sensor) and combustion misfiring (cylinder 1). The garage now told me that these could be the reasons but it could be anything else relating to the engine icon coming up. They had my car for the last couple of days as couldn't do diagnostic yesterday (small garage so car outside and it was raining) so I assume they're doing it today. Yesterday they called me and explained that the worst case scenario would be to change the timing belt but that's a very worst case. They checked the plugs and suggested changing them with coil as a first step so it doesn't seem to me as they're 100% sure what causes the problem with the engine. My worry is exactly what you say, that they're unable to figure out and will be trying which may be few different bits each costing me and in total would be as much as the car is worth. Perhaps I will message them and find out if this is because they actually we're unable to find the problem.

What's the timing belt got to do with it? Personally I'd find another garage. 

Don't ask me. I have no idea. 😉😂 I am just saying what they told me over the phone. It was a worst case scenario they said. I just replied to them to clarify if by '1st attempt' they mean they were unable to find the problem because of this doesn't work I don't want to pay in total more than what the car is worth. 🤪

Timing belts are replaced on age or mileage and if correctly set will not have any effect on the running of the engine. At 9-10 years old I would hope it's been changed at some point and may be due again.

It sounds like they are guessing at the solution rather than knowing.

I just spoke to the man who explained to me everything. He said if I want to try the dealer I can, will obviously pay more and they will tell me what to fix. I can then go back to them or any other garage to get it fixed. However, he told me that if I want to go through garages, each will have a similar procedure of starting with the part that is the cheapest if not sure. He admitted my car's situation is not as straight forward and said they have a policy of not charging the diagnostic fee if they're not happy with the results. He said they have three machines, used two of them and both showed there is a problem with cylinder 3. He cannot promise me that changing plugs will fix it but they're old and need replacing. If I want to go ahead they will do it in half an hour and then take the car for a half an hour test drive, reset the lights and so on. What do you think?

So recovery scanned it and it showed an air flow error on cylinder 1. Sounds like a new sensor may be required.

Now your garage want to change the plugs and coil for an error on cylinder 3. What diagnostics did they do?

By all means spend the best part of £200 to new plugs and coil, but what if there's still a problem and they want another £150 for a sensor?

A £100 diagnostic check at a dealer and £150 for a sensor could well be the cheaper option. 

Thanks again. I did question that with him as the roadside assistance showed mass air flow problem and suggested sensor may need replacing but when we restarted the engine and stepped on accelerator so he can hear the engine working he then said it is probably combustion misfiring and cylinder 1 which could be an underlaying problem of the mass air flow. Mechanic today explained to me that it is possible that what's showing now as a problem could be not showing back then on that day and to be frank it would make sens even to a newbie like me. The guy at roadside assistance surely wouldn't have the same computers with him as the ones on the garage, right? Hence Id expect garage to have more thorough diagnostic. Mechanic also told me the two names of American computers he uses but I didn't make a note of them as I didn't think this details was necessary.

Snap On?

Again it's possible the recovery operator had a better diagnostic tool, without knowing who they were or what your garage used we'd be guessing like your mechanic appea s to be. 

The only problem I have with going to a dealer is that I'll pay much more for diagnostic and it doesn't guarantee me that they will actually find the exact problem of the car (maybe even more than the garage?). Am I wrong assuming that or are the dealers can guarantee 'no diagnosis, no fee'? I doubt it. 🤔

Dealers will charge for diagnostics but they will have the most up to date software for your vehicle.

You obviously what to hear it, so get your garage to do the work in the hope it solves your problem. 

dipsomaniac

Do you know how old (years/miles) plugs are?.  Plugs rarely fail these days.  I am not a expert but a good vehicle electrician should be able to diagnose a maf or coil pack using live data

TonyMMM

Or they could just move the plug from cylinder 3 to another cylinder and see if the fault moves with it, likewise the coil packs. It isn't difficult to work out if one or other is is at fault

PawelK

dipsomaniac said:

Do you know how old (years/miles) plugs are?.  Plugs rarely fail these days.  I am not a expert but a good vehicle electrician should be able to diagnose a maf or coil pack using live data

From the docs I have it appears they were replaced in March 2018 so nearly three years ago. However, I read somewhere that they usually last for anything between 30-90k miles so age is probably less relevant. The car I purchased last August (from a good friend so can definitely say he didn't hide anything from me, of anything, he wasn't aware himself and did the mot just before the sale) made up to date from March 2018 around 27k miles.

PawelK

TonyMMM said:

Or they could just move the plug from cylinder 3 to another cylinder and see if the fault moves with it, likewise the coil packs. It isn't difficult to work out if one or other is is at fault

Thanks Tony. You might be right here but as I am a clueless about it, I wouldn't feel comfortable telling the mechanic how to do their job. I guess I have to have some degree of trust towards them at first and hope that over 200 Google reviews and 4.9 average score are not just all fake. 😂