8% back on bills you pay - couldn't be easier

zalek

Atlantic Electric has been running a kind of promotion. This is what they say on their website:

"We are pleased to confirm that once you've been with us for a year, we'll give you an annual rebate and pay it automatically into your bank account. You needn’t make a claim or remember to do anything – simply leave it to us!*

* Rebate paid in month 13 after 12 month's continuous supply and annually thereafter. Amount based on average of total payments made over the preceding 12 months."

You have to pay the bills by direct debit. The 8% is of course simplified 1/12 but in fact it's actually more (as your payments are spread over 12 months).

So, go and grab the bargain. I guess it'd be good to get the T&C to see how true is that the rebate will be applied year by year.

Terrylw1

Here's another thread from some happy customers:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=590447

zalek

sorry for repeating myself in two threads but I thought it's such a good idea (and if I'm wrong let me know)

espresso wrote: »

You seem to think that you can fiddle the loyalty scheme by increasing your payments!

One month free in one year, works out at 8% discount.

:rolleyes:

Yes and No. Yes, I think I can fiddle with the scheme. And No, the money you are making out of it it's not 8% at all. Read on, please.

You pay for the bills each month by direct debit. Lets say it’s 100 a month for both electrict and gas. After a year of those payments, you get back the 100. This is, as you said, 8.33% (1/12) out of 1,200 payments you made over a year . However, this 1,200 was paid over 12 months, and not as one lump sum.

Now, open a spreadshet and see, how much interest you would earn if you would open a saving account into which you would pay 100 a month for 12 month with fixed rate 8.333%. It would be £54.17 (and not £100) which is 4.514% of your total investment at the end of 12 months (12 x 100 = 1,200; 54.17/1,200 = 4.514%).

So, if I was to get back £100 out of the above investment (the same amount I’m going to be paid back by Atlantic), the fixed rate would have to be 15.38% tax free!! And if I was to pay the lower band tax on this investment and still wanted to get my 100, the actuall rate would have to be 19.23%!!

Now, lets say I can put aside 500 a month. If I be saving them in ICIC at fixed rate of 6.4% (the best you can get at the moment) I’ll get after a year of saving and paying my tax about £168.

But if I set up my direct debit for gas at £250 and for electric at £250, after twelve months they will pay me back £500. Almost 3 times as much as the best saving account could earn. And even if I’m not going to be eligible for any further loyalty scheme with them, it doesn’t matter as to get £500 back from that scheme one would have to be paid over many many years to get £500 altogheter. I’d rather have them now, don’t you? And even if they do not want to pay back the overpayments, you just switch supplyer and get your final bill with a check for the amount overpaid. So, it's worth doing if you can put aside few hundred pounds. It doesn't cost your time and money and you get 15.38% tax free return on this 'investment'.

Please tell me that I’m wrong because now comes the reall treat – I run small business with 30 residential properties for which I pay the bills… and I can put aside a lot of cash...

Terrylw1

Ok,

It is a good deal in my opinion because it's based on your payments, not your usage. So, you can overpay with the intention of getting back some extra on this basis.

It's subject to VAT though, it's not tax free. I'm not sure how that effects the refund but energy Suppliers have to have a VAT line on the bills. So, it may be worth checking but from experience of crediting customers in this industry, the customer has always received the full sum and the VAT has not affected it. Might be worth checking that though with this deal as it's pretty unusual, although very nice!

Is it also available to business customers then?

I think you will also find a clause that covers a threshold of what you can pay to stop huge sums being payed for this intention. Suggest you check what that clause is because they have the power to change your DD whenever they like without your permission (as long as they notify you).

It also makjes me think that they are very heavy handed on reviewing DD's as well so they don't get conned this way.

Note that it's also uninterupted supply. That doesn't mean at a technical level, it means that the account must be in your name for that period. If you are a landlord that won't be the case unless your tenancy agreements cover utilities.

zalek

Terrylw1 wrote: »

It's subject to VAT though, it's not tax free. I'm not sure how that effects the refund but energy Suppliers have to have a VAT line on the bills. So, it may be worth checking but from experience of crediting customers in this industry, the customer has always received the full sum and the VAT has not affected it.

I'd argu it has nothing to do with VAT and tax. Because this return has nothing to do with your bills but with your average monthly direct debit, they clearly state they'll refund that exact amount.
And as to the tax - I cannot see at what point am I to pay the tax? It's a cashback, not a return on investment.

Terrylw1 wrote: »

Is it also available to business customers then?

Note that it's also uninterupted supply. That doesn't mean at a technical level, it means that the account must be in your name for that period. If you are a landlord that won't be the case unless your tenancy agreements cover utilities.

Don't know if it is for business actually but because we have an unusuall setup we can do it quite easily.

And yes, it's us who pays the bills and have the accounts with utility companies

Terrylw1 wrote: »

I think you will also find a clause that covers a threshold of what you can pay to stop huge sums being payed for this intention. Suggest you check what that clause is because they have the power to change your DD whenever they like without your permission (as long as they notify you).

It also makjes me think that they are very heavy handed on reviewing DD's as well so they don't get conned this way.

Unfortunatelly I have no T&C at hand but I guess that if there is any watch kept over this it'd be reviewing DD's, as you said. I hope that in such a big business it's very hard to control everything and the way of thinking of the thinker who created such a deal was like this: let's pay back average DD rather than the actual usage because most people tends to rather underpay than overpay. So, if that was the way they thought there is a chance they missed the loophole.

Terrylw1

zalek wrote: »

I'd argu it has nothing to do with VAT and tax. Because this return has nothing to do with your bills but with your average monthly direct debit, they clearly state they'll refund that exact amount.
And as to the tax - I cannot see at what point am I to pay the tax? It's a cashback, not a return on investment.

Yeah, someone on the other thread has answered this. They apply it after the VAT line so it is just a standard credit so you get the whole value.


Don't know if it is for business actually but because we have an unusuall setup we can do it quite easily.

And yes, it's us who pays the bills and have the accounts with utility companies

Do you pay as domestic? If so, you will be able to get this. Some rep will be very happy to get commission for all your properties!

It certainly seems worth a look from your point of view because it represents quite a saving over all those properties.

Unfortunatelly I have no T&C at hand but I guess that if there is any watch kept over this it'd be reviewing DD's, as you said. I hope that in such a big business it's very hard to control everything and the way of thinking of the thinker who created such a deal was like this: let's pay back average DD rather than the actual usage because most people tends to rather underpay than overpay. So, if that was the way they thought there is a chance they missed the loophole.

They will probably just review your DD's every 6 months months to deal with the seasonal differences however it will only ever be accurate if firm readings get billed. Thats worth looking into as Atlantic seem pretty hot on obtaining firm readings to bill you. Worth asking Andy B about that on the other thread as he's been through this with them since he's been there over a year. If they take firm readings frequently, your DD's will be more accurate which may mean they can try to limit what you agree to pay on DD.

zalek

Terrylw1 wrote: »

They will probably just review your DD's every 6 months months to deal with the seasonal differences however it will only ever be accurate if firm readings get billed. Thats worth looking into as Atlantic seem pretty hot on obtaining firm readings to bill you. Worth asking Andy B about that on the other thread as he's been through this with them since he's been there over a year. If they take firm readings frequently, your DD's will be more accurate which may mean they can try to limit what you agree to pay on DD.

There is a chance they don't in those cases - it's all done online with the facility for you to provide meter readings. So I would guess they might be bit more relaying on the customer to provide meter readings.
I'll keep you updated and once I have those T&Cs I'll let know what they say exactly.

roddydogs

They will repay any over payment just before you get the discount-they are not daft. if you over estimate your readings, you are guilty of fraud!

SwanJon

zalek wrote: »

But if I set up my direct debit for gas at £250 and for electric at £250, after twelve months they will pay me back £500.

This is the flaw in the plan.
You don't set the amount for a DD, Atlantic do.
They take what they need, not what you want to give them.

If it has been set too high, it'll most likely be down to estimated reads (which we all know are a bad thing).

If you try it and it works though, let everyone know.

Terrylw1

roddydogs wrote: »

They will repay any over payment just before you get the discount-they are not daft. if you over estimate your readings, you are guilty of fraud!

That would have to proved and it's unlikely since utilities see incorrect readings from customers on a daily basis. So they would have to see a pattern of this, ideally in the OP's case they could monitor all 30 addresses (if they are in the same name) and easily catch him/her out.

Only the Supplier would estimate, however Atlantic take reads every 6 months and have a promise of no estimates which makes their scheme more accurate to manage.

If they accepted overpayments due to not assessing the DD correctly and then returned the cash just before, I think a lot of complaints to Energywatch would begin.

Would be interesting to see how it goes though.

espresso

zalek wrote: »

There is a chance they don't in those cases - it's all done online with the facility for you to provide meter readings. So I would guess they might be bit more relaying on the customer to provide meter readings.
I'll keep you updated and once I have those T&Cs I'll let know what they say exactly.

Your not an Atlantic customer are you! If you were you would know that they issue bills every six months based on actual meter readings (not customer supplied) and your DD will be adjusted if necessary accordingly.

Was it really necessary to post your idea in two threads?

:rolleyes: