And another thing - 95 mph white vans and others up to 7.5t? Safe? Or plain daft?

peterbaker

Here's a few questions about something else I notice and know a little about, and wonder about the accidents arising therefrom (of which I have no experiences - thank goodness).

With the latest reincarnations of Ford Transits, Fiat Ducatos, Citroen whatevers, Peugeot Boxers, Mercedes thingammies, Vauxhall Vitanos and Renault Traffics we now have the almost unremarkable daily phenomena of informal chains very big white boxes with single tyres on each corner regularly hurtling along nose to tail in the fast lanes at 95mph on our motorways.

Is this ok? Do they all have disc brakes now, or do some still have drums which fade when hot? Do they all have ABS now? How do they perform in handling tests with high centre of gravity (remember when Range Rovers kept falling over crash barriers on motorways?). Is there any recent evidence that we may be suffering from a spate of "white van" accidents, or are they generally good insurance risks?

Do we have an overheating economy in the UK in some ways reflected in the style and make up of traffic on our motorways?

What is the difference in fuel economy between a large white box van at 95mph and the same van at 55mph?

Are we rushing around like idiots or are we a country to be emulated?

Answers I think are all there daily on the M11, or any motorway of your choice

But is a new 160hp white van the sort of thing your nearest and dearest UK entrepeneur small businessperson should wish for in his or her stocking, or the sort of thing your nearest and dearest commuting breadwinner should share his or her fast lane with when driving home this Christmas?

Do we need to slow these things down, to save half the UK's diesel consumption if for no other reason?

anewman

peterbaker wrote: »

What is the difference in fuel economy between a large white box van at 95mph and the same van at 55mph?

I imagine quite a bit. I am actually planning on my next long journey to try keep as constant a 56mph as possible as I usually do go about 75mph. I think when I worked it out based on the MFR's MPG figures it only made about £3 difference per 200 miles but I suppose that will be £3 in my pocket.

skim

Is an extra hour traveling really worth £3?

anewman

I work it out to be about 40 minutes, but that's kind of why last time I went the 75mph If I try it once anyway I can calculate the actual saving more accurately and see if it really is worth reducing speed for money saving.

scbk

When I first got my van I and was using it for "social, domestic & leisure incl commuting" I wasn't doing long distances and used to just full throttle it everywhere. But it sure drinks the diesel like that! A few months later and I was self employed, now I stick to about 60mph (unless the road isn't up to it of course), and maybe a few mph less if I'm towing. Every penny counts and I'd rather it was in mine than someone else's, usually get about 35mpg unless I'm towing when it's prolly about 30mpg.

TBH most van drivers doing 90 in the fast lane aren't paying the diesel bills :rolleyes:

peterbaker wrote: »

Is this ok? Do they all have disc brakes now, or do some still have drums which fade when hot? Do they all have ABS now? How do they perform in handling tests with high centre of gravity (remember when Range Rovers kept falling over crash barriers on motorways?). Is there any recent evidence that we may be suffering from a spate of "white van" accidents, or are they generally good insurance risks?

Modern vans are basically big cars that can carry a lot of weight, so yes they are fairly safe. Transits are strudy but I've heard of quite a few merc sprinters rolling over, think this has been resolved with the latest model though.
For some reason a 2l van can be cheaper to insure for a young person than a 1l car - unless you need businees use insurance!:rolleyes:

peterbaker wrote: »

Do we need to slow these things down, to save half the UK's diesel consumption if for no other reason?

Cannae mind the exact rules but I'm sure all new commercial vehicles over 3.5t have to be restricted.
Also when ordering a new transit from ford (and probably the same with merc/vw) you can get it restricted for free to a choice of speeds - this seems to be a fairly popular choice with fleet managers. Much to the annoyance of the drivers! :rotfl:


Also not many people actually know that lower speed limits apply to vans, and even lower still to trucks over 7.5t

peterbaker

Thanks for that ... but here's some possibly interesting counter-data:

I have a 2002 Fiat Ducato ... it is plated at 3.5 tonnes. It is actually supposed to be safe up to over 4 tonnes and can be re-plated at 4.150 I think without any modifications, merely a bit of paperwork and fee paying. That would then require a pre-1997 car licence to drive, but I don't think it drops the max speed limit on a motorway. Judging from the number of 'Ford Cargo' and 7.5t Iveco trucks with tail-lifts found at 70mph plus in the fast lane, I don't think there's any effective restriction until you get into formal HGV categories.

Mine has a 127hp engine which can easily be informally upgraded to about 150hp with a simple adapter self-fitted in five minutes to be found any day of the week on eBay.

It has drum rear brakes which fade when hot.

It has no ABS.

It is legal at 70mph on a motorway same as a car.

It handles fine in a straight-line.

I am sure I could tip it over on a first attempt (modern cars generally can't easily be tipped over).

Even at just 127hp it can be wound up to cruise at 90mph and swallows diesel twice as fast at that speed than at 55mph.

If I am in the fast lane on the motorway, no-one behind me can anticipate the road ahead beyond the back of my van.

Therefore for both safety and MoneySaving Expert reasons I have learned to slow down, and for simple courtesy/safety for other roaduser reasons I try not to block anyone's vison of the road ahead with it for more than a few moments.

I personally find it politically odd that the ever-developing rudeness and pushiness of the country's economy is tolerated on the motorway at average speed numbers which we have seen rising almost as fast as the fuel prices. Does anyone care?

vikingaero

White van man is well catered for now. All of the vans that you have mentioned have ABS as standard and most have drivers airbags.

anewman

vikingaero wrote: »

White van man is well catered for now. All of the vans that you have mentioned have ABS as standard and most have drivers airbags.

Doesn't make much difference to other people when a big heavy van full of goods turns over on top of you though.

Woby_Tide

peterbaker wrote: »

What is the difference in fuel economy between a large white box van at 95mph and the same van at 55mph?

Are we rushing around like idiots or are we a country to be emulated?

I'd imagine half the influx of these vans is down to internet shopping and the associated rise in 'cheap shipping' deals from retailers and an expectation from consumers that "You said you would deliver it this tiny time frame and I'm sooo impatient why isn't it here" as seen on various forum threads. If the full shipping cost was passed onto consumers more often then some of the carriers might invest in more vans but ones that could then be driven at a lower speed. Until then i'll be stack the vans up high and get it delivered quick. But thats just my take on one of the causes

ozvaldinho

Things are going to get considerably slower from January next year because there is a deadline for the fitment of speed limiters and tachographs to any vehicle over 3.5t MGW.
A lot of fleets are holding on to their older vehicles as the don't have to have the new digital tachos fitted, but their numbers will be decreasing steadily. However, there will be a big, noticeable increase in big luton-type vans under 3.5 tonnes, many of which can really shift. Most are restricted to 99mph at the factory, but are capable of more.

However, these vans are often as safe as modern cars: They have ABS, traction control etc. Some, like my new Mercedes Sprinter have load -sensing electronic stability programmes which make it almost impossible to tip over. These vans also have the advantage of really good visibility as you can see over cars.

I'm not condoning speeding in any way, I'm just warning that you could see motorway lanes increasingly clogged up with speed limited vehicles. The request to limit 7.5t vans to 60mph was rejceted as being confusing.

ozvaldinho

The different speed limits for these larger vans are now being enforced much more strictly. One of my drivers recently got a ticket for doing 72mph on a dual carriageway where the limit is 60 for this size vehicle. I doubt the limit has been set to 72 for cars, so I'm figuring the camera can check the registration plate against the vehicle weight.