TFL Congestion Charges

Gnatsv

I'm hoping I can get some advice here. I've tried TFL twice and they are not helpful. I went into London at the start of October 2020. I usually catch a train as it's cheaper and more convenient, but because of COVID and the fact that I have someone vulnerable living with me opted to drive. I booked parking out of the congestion zone and set my GPS to avoid congestion charges. On my way return home, my GPS took me on a different route, there was some roadworks so maybe that was why, but I drove through a congestion charge zone unbeknownst to me.  A week later I got a letter from the Low Emissions Zone, fining me for this error. I wrote to them explaining my story and they waivered the fine. I returned to Italy in mid October as I had a job offer (no work since March 2020, due to lockdown) Soon after arrival the secondary schools closed and I was left without work. While in Italy I apparently was sent a congestion charge notice ( I had no clue that there can be 2 different charges levied) As it was ignored, because I was in Italy as were the subsequent ones I have now been issued with a 'recovery of unpaid penalty charge' My son intercepted this final letter when he was housesitting that is how I became aware of it.  I rang TFL and they clearly did not believe me. I was advised by a very unhelpful agent to fill in a statutory declaration online. As I'm still in Italy and will be for the foreseeable future, that's an impossibility as it needs to countersigned by a Justice of the Peace. I rang again today to find out what recourse I had to defend myself and was told to write a letter of representation which they may or may not acknowledge. I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall. My financial situation is dire, due to lockdown and lack of employment, so cannot afford to pay the fine.  Yet TFL carries on regardless despite the extenuating circumstance bought on by COVID. Can anyone offer advice for someone trying to deal with TFL while stuck in Italy? 

AdrianC

First off, was it a congestion charge or ULEZ penalty? They're two different things, although the boundaries are currently the same (and very clearly marked, both on the road surface and on roadside signage).

I'm wondering if you got pinged for both, they cancelled the ULEZ penalty, but the CC penalty remained.

You were, I presume, driving a UK-registered car? Are you the registered keeper?

Gnatsv

It is a UK registered car and I am the registered keeper. Is a ULEZ an emissions zone charge? I'm not a London resident and don't visit often so was only ever aware of the congestion charge. When the first PCN arrived it was for low emission zone, which I erroneously thought was congestion charge (never heard of emission zone charges). It arrived shortly before I left for Italy so I wrote a letter of representation, explaining what had happened and showing my proof of parking outside the congestion charge zone. They agreed to cancel the PCN. As mentioned I thought this was actually the congestion charge, but it turns out they are 2 different things. So when the congestion charge letters were posted, I was already in Italy an unaware they had been sent. Had I known there were 2 separate fines I would have tried to get them both sorted before I left. Apparently the congestion zone areas are clearly marked, but when you are trying to navigate traffic, roadworks and follow a GPS in a busy city it's not that straight forward. 

AdrianC

Gnatsv said:

It is a UK registered car and I am the registered keeper.

Being RK means you have to be contactable at the address you gave for the vehicle to be registered to.
I think you're going to struggle if you're claiming that you weren't.

Is a ULEZ an emissions zone charge?

Yes. It came into force in April 2019.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/low-emission-zone

Apparently the congestion zone areas are clearly marked, but when you are trying to navigate traffic, roadworks and follow a GPS in a busy city it's not that straight forward.

Signage of one of the things you need to deal with.

Not being aware of the existence of the CC Zone or ULEZ, or the applicability of the ULEZ to your car, is not a get-out.
"Road signs are in place before the ULEZ starts at every entry point along the boundary and along key arterial approaches. They sit next to existing Congestion Charge signs."
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone/ulez-road-signs



This describes what to do once the unpaid penalty gets to the point you are now in...
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge/penalties-and-enforcement/challenge-a-penalty-charge/make-a-statutory-declaration
...and the process to get to this point.
https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/congestion-charge/penalties-and-enforcement

There is no discretion left by this stage. You have to do it formally. Your inconvenience is not their problem.

Browntoa

Big road signs as you enter all zones , congestion charge also has a big "C" painted on the road . Your error I'm afraid 

Gnatsv

Thanks for your responses. I'm sure I'm not the first person to have a UK registered vehicle who has taken on contract work in another country for a set period of time. What about UK citizens who live in the UK, but spend months living abroad in their second homes? I'm claiming I wasn't in the UK, because I wasn't and that I can prove. I communicated this to the TFL representative who then offered the suggestion of statutory declaration which one needs to be in the UK to complete.  As far as clear signage, I'm not denying that fact. I am saying I did not see it. Maybe because my GPS was meant to take me through the congestion charge free zone, so was not looking out for it.  Simply stating that 'signage is something you need to deal with' does not change the fact the most drivers sometime in their lives will miss an important piece of information. I take it that you are the exception. 

AdrianC

Gnatsv said:

I'm sure I'm not the first person to have a UK registered vehicle who has taken on contract work in another country for a set period of time. What about UK citizens who live in the UK, but spend months living abroad in their second homes?

Royal Mail forward post internationally, if there isn't somebody checking on the property regularly who can deal with it. Home insurance usually requires regular checks.

I'm claiming I wasn't in the UK, because I wasn't and that I can prove.

And the route to that is via the StatDec.

As far as clear signage, I'm not denying that fact. I am saying I did not see it. Maybe because my GPS was meant to take me through the congestion charge free zone, so was not looking out for it.  Simply stating that 'signage is something you need to deal with' does not change the fact the most drivers sometime in their lives will miss an important piece of information. I take it that you are the exception.

No, not a bit of it. I am as perfectly fallible as everybody else.

So we're all agreed that you did drive through the area, you were aware of that before leaving the UK, and you did not respond to the penalty charge which was correctly sent through to the address your car was registered to?
Then, I'm afraid, it seems to be what is generally known as a fair cop.
Filing the StatDec is probably only going to delay the inevitable.

From the TfL link:

A Statutory Declaration is not a representation or a complaint. You may only make a Statutory Declaration on one of the following three grounds:

1. You did not receive a PCN. This does NOT apply if you just forgot to pay it, mislaid it or forgot to make a representation. If you did not receive the original PCN because you moved address, ensure your Statutory Declaration includes details of your new address
2. You made representations about the PCN to us (Transport for London), within 28 days of the service of the PCN, and you did not receive a Notice of Rejection. This only applies if you made a representation within the time limit to the correct address as provided on the PCN and never received a response from us. It does not apply if you received a reply you disagreed with or if we refused to consider your representation because it was late
3. You appealed to London Tribunals against our decision to reject your representation, within 28 days of the service of the rejection notice, but you have had no response to your appeal. This only applies if you made an appeal within the time limit to London Tribunals and never received a response from London Tribunals. It does not apply if you received a reply you disagreed with or if London Tribunals refused to consider your appeal because it was late

Remember: if it is not signed and witnessed, or if you do not make it on one of the three grounds, the Court may refuse your Statutory Declaration.

...

Please be aware that we will review each application submitted Out of Time and may challenge the application in the event that:

• There is evidence that you knew of the PCN
• You have failed to update the DVLA or DVA with your correct address
• You are still resident at the address to which correspondence was sent
• There are other grounds under which the application can be challenged

2 and 3 do not apply. So it's just 1. The UK address it was sent to is still your correct UK address - post sent there simply got neglected.

Gnatsv

Thank- you for stating the obvious. It may seem to you from wherever you are that the issue I am faced with is straight forward, as you have so 'pragmatically' pointed out.  However, forwarding mail is not that straight forward to some parts of Italy. It would never have arrrived where I am based! I have had someone checking my mail and this was the FIRST letter that they opened for congestion charging.  
So we're all agreed that you did drive through the area, you were aware of that before leaving the UK, and you did not respond to the penalty charge which was correctly sent through to the address your car was registered to?
I'm not going to try and explain myself to you any further.  You have missed out on some salient facts that were mentioned. 
Please don't waste my time. I have a lot to deal with at the moment and really don't need a 'know it all,' trying to be clever and play 'one up' games with me. 

macman

Your grievance seems to be based on the fact that you managed to get the ULEZ charge waived, but not the CCZ charge.  They are 2 separate things, and one will not necessarily follow the other. 
Your defence is based almost entirely on 'I didn't know the regulations, therefore the charge should be waived'. 
The only person wasting their time is you, as you simply have no real defence to offer. As the old adage goes, and cliched it may be, but 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'.

DiddyDavies

Gnatsv said:

I communicated this to the TFL representative who then offered the suggestion of statutory declaration which one needs to be in the UK to complete. 

There is nothing on the TFL website that states you have to be in the UK to complete a statutory declaration and there is no reason why you couldn't do this and get it witnessed and certified in Italy.
Here's one example of an Italian based company that could do what you require:
http://www.oliverpartners.it/our-services/affidavits-oaths-certified-copies/

We are regularly requested by the British Embassy in Rome and Italian Notaries to advise on English law, and can offer assistance such as preparing Affidavits of English law and drawing up Powers of Attorney and Statutory Declarations.

Contact us for an appointment: legal@oliverpartners.it