Executor's right to past information

Sine_Nomine

Hi,

My OH and his brother are joint executors to their recently deceased Mum's will.

My OH alone had had PoA for her (and his Dad before he died a few years back).

Following their Mum's passing, my OH's brother has now started demanding detailed financial history from him of both his Mum and Dad because my OH had PoA.

We have nothing to hide, but at a time we are grieving the rather menacing demand for information is thoughtless and unhelpful.  The underlying innuendo is that her affairs were 'mismanaged' by my OH. 

Our thoughts are that the Executors only need to know little more than what assets and liabilities the deceased had on the day they passed away.

Can anyone advise what information executors are entitled to access from banks, PoAs, DWP, etc.?

Many thanks

tacpot12

Executors are entitled to the information they need to establish the assets and liabilities (debts) of the deceased. As a minimum, I would expect this to include all bank statements going back at least 10 years - you need to go beyond the IHT period for gifts in case the evidence shows that gifts were being made out of income prior to the 7 year period when gifts might need to be accounted for in IHT.

Executors should only need the current details for amounts owed, although if there have been payment difficulties they might need to see earlier correspondence in case the charges for debts are still in dispute.

Executors will need to see title deeds and valuations of property. 

My feeling is that you should ask him to justify what information he needs, but if he comes up with a reasonable justification and you have the information, pass it over. It is also the case that he might not realise that he is being insensitive, so someone needs to let him know that your OH needs a bit more space to come to terms with his Mum's passing. Whoever does this might mention that different people deal with grief differently. 

If he does ask for information that you don't want to release,  you can ask about it here - there will be plenty of opinions on whether their request is reasonable.

The information he can't ask for is why decisions were taken. Your OH was responsible to dealing with their affairs in their best interests, and I would suggest that he is robust in confirming that he only did what he thought was in their best interests  - and at the end of the day, it was his decision and his alone.  

Mickey666

If there is nothing to hide what's the problem with providing the information, especially when they have that right as executor.

Swamp him with as much information as you've got!

Keep_pedalling

tacpot12 said:

Executors are entitled to the information they need to establish the assets and liabilities (debts) of the deceased. As a minimum, I would expect this to include all bank statements going back at least 10 years - you need to go beyond the IHT period for gifts in case the evidence shows that gifts were being made out of income prior to the 7 year period when gifts might need to be accounted for in IHT.

Executors should only need the current details for amounts owed, although if there have been payment difficulties they might need to see earlier correspondence in case the charges for debts are still in dispute.

Executors will need to see title deeds and valuations of property. 

My feeling is that you should ask him to justify what information he needs, but if he comes up with a reasonable justification and you have the information, pass it over. It is also the case that he might not realise that he is being insensitive, so someone needs to let him know that your OH needs a bit more space to come to terms with his Mum's passing. Whoever does this might mention that different people deal with grief differently. 

If he does ask for information that you don't want to release,  you can ask about it here - there will be plenty of opinions on whether their request is reasonable.

The information he can't ask for is why decisions were taken. Your OH was responsible to dealing with their affairs in their best interests, and I would suggest that he is robust in confirming that he only did what he thought was in their best interests  - and at the end of the day, it was his decision and his alone.  

No one keeps 10 years of statements, and I doubt if even the bank can go back that far even you the deceased had stayed with the same bank all that time. Hopefully anyone making gifts for IHT reduction purposes will keep records for theirs executors.

naedanger

Mickey666 said:

... when they have that right as executor.

But do they have that right? I don't think they do, at least without some sort of court order. That said, if the brother is a reasonable person then I agree that the information should be given in any event. However I suspect the concern might be that the brother will start creating other problems e.g. by quibbling over expenditure etc.

Sine_Nomine

Mickey666 said:

If there is nothing to hide what's the problem with providing the information, especially when they have that right as executor.

Swamp him with as much information as you've got!

He largely doesn't have the information being requested, so it means getting it. In practice we feel this can be dealt with by my OH saying 'don't have that info', if you feel it is relevant then you go get it.

The 'problem with providing the information' is fundamentally that their parents didn't want him to have it, and probably forgot they had named him as a joint executor.   

Brynsam

Sine_Nomine said:

We have nothing to hide, but at a time we are grieving the rather menacing demand for information is thoughtless and unhelpful.  The underlying innuendo is that her affairs were 'mismanaged' by my OH. 

Our thoughts are that the Executors only need to know little more than what assets and liabilities the deceased had on the day they passed away.

Could it be that it is because you are grieving your skin is a bit thinner than usual, and you are possibly feeling more 'menaced' than would otherwise be the case? The brother is also grieving, so his level of sensitivity to others might not be perfect right now.

As to what information an executor is entitled to, the reality is that precious few people keep any sort of record of gifts which might count towards IHT (after all, they're never going to die). The executor needs to take reasonable steps to establish what monetary/other gifts have been made, especially in the seven years before the death, and someone with a POA for financial affairs is likely to be best placed to help this quest.

Sine_Nomine

naedanger said:

Mickey666 said:

... when they have that right as executor.

But do they have that right? I don't think they do, at least without some sort of court order. That said, if the brother is a reasonable person then I agree that the information should be given in any event. However I suspect the concern might be that the brother will start creating other problems e.g. by quibbling over expenditure etc.

LOL - Spot on - 'the brother' is far removed from being a 'reasonable person', resents my OH being given PoA by his parents, and wants to scrutinise everything with the intention of challenging his decisions and handling of their affairs.
Going to be a difficult few months we suspect.

Sine_Nomine

Brynsam said:

Sine_Nomine said:

We have nothing to hide, but at a time we are grieving the rather menacing demand for information is thoughtless and unhelpful.  The underlying innuendo is that her affairs were 'mismanaged' by my OH. 

Our thoughts are that the Executors only need to know little more than what assets and liabilities the deceased had on the day they passed away.

Could it be that it is because you are grieving your skin is a bit thinner than usual, and you are possibly feeling more 'menaced' than would otherwise be the case? The brother is also grieving, so his level of sensitivity to others might not be perfect right now.

As to what information an executor is entitled to, the reality is that precious few people keep any sort of record of gifts which might count towards IHT (after all, they're never going to die). The executor needs to take reasonable steps to establish what monetary/other gifts have been made, especially in the seven years before the death, and someone with a POA for financial affairs is likely to be best placed to help this quest.

No - he is convinced my OH has syphoned off a wedge and plans to uncover it.  There's history.

My In-Laws were asset rich but cash/income poor and lived hand to mouth - there is no IHT and there were no gifts over £3k ever, let alone in the last 7 years. 

My OH will provide the information he has, but as most banking was carried out online, and he no longer has access to this.  

Keep_pedalling

Sine_Nomine said:

Brynsam said:

Sine_Nomine said:

We have nothing to hide, but at a time we are grieving the rather menacing demand for information is thoughtless and unhelpful.  The underlying innuendo is that her affairs were 'mismanaged' by my OH. 

Our thoughts are that the Executors only need to know little more than what assets and liabilities the deceased had on the day they passed away.

Could it be that it is because you are grieving your skin is a bit thinner than usual, and you are possibly feeling more 'menaced' than would otherwise be the case? The brother is also grieving, so his level of sensitivity to others might not be perfect right now.

As to what information an executor is entitled to, the reality is that precious few people keep any sort of record of gifts which might count towards IHT (after all, they're never going to die). The executor needs to take reasonable steps to establish what monetary/other gifts have been made, especially in the seven years before the death, and someone with a POA for financial affairs is likely to be best placed to help this quest.

No - he is convinced my OH has syphoned off a wedge and plans to uncover it.  There's history.

My In-Laws were asset rich but cash/income poor and lived hand to mouth - there is no IHT and there were no gifts over £3k ever, let alone in the last 7 years. 

My OH will provide the information he has, but as most banking was carried out online, and he no longer has access to this.  

If he wants bank records, the bank’s bereavement department will provide them at the request of an executor 

Sine_Nomine

Thanks to all.

I think the strategy we've formulated is to provide any information he requests if my OH has it to hand.  If he doesn't, he'll tell him where he can get it and let him go and get it himself.

My OH is happy that they have sufficient information to complete the IHT205, apply for probate, sell the property, and split the proceeds between the beneficiaries.