Feeling at my wits end with tenants, don't know what to do (Scotland)

[Deleted User]

scottishblondie said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:
Assuming this tenancy started after 1st December 2017 and there’s a PRT in place I’d be using this and the dog as an opportunity to get of these tenants using ground 3 (landlord intends to refurbish) and/or ground 11 (breach of tenancy agreement*) for the dog and failing to report the repair in a timely fashion. 

They've actually been in since mid 2016, so it was originally a Short Assured Tenancy that rolled on to month by month.  All of the grounds that I believe I could currently use ("3 months rent arrears", "persistent delay in paying rent", "some rent unpaid", "breach of tenancy condition" and "deterioration of the house and common parts") currently require 6 months notice to go before the 1st Tier Tribunal for an eviction notice.

If it really is a Short Assured Tenancy and not an Assured Tenancy (were the tenants given an AT5 form prior to signing the tenancy?) you don’t need a ground to evict so you could issue a Section 33 giving 6 months notice before you go to the FTT for an eviction order. You’d also need to issue a notice to quit that ties in with ish (no that’s not a spelling mistake) date. 

If you go down the route of needing to use a ground for eviction then it’s an AT6 and notice to quit you need to issue. For that I’d suggest ground 6 and/or 8 (this ground requires pre-action requirements) possibly 11, 12, 13 or 14 are worth looking at too. 

The notice periods might be 6 months but the sooner you start the sooner they’ll be out. I know it sounds harsh but these are not people I would want as tenants. 

Are you positive that the tenancy “rolled on to month by month” once the initial fixed term ended? Did the SAT agreement say that would happen or is it silent on the matter? 

Slithery

Again, this is based on England so might be worth ignoring....

Would there be grounds for severing the tenancy due to the property being inhabitable despite all of your best efforts?

Murphybear

Have you thought about putting them in a holiday cottage while the work is being done?  It would be easy for them as it would be fully furnished and far more likely to accept a dog.  At this time of year there’s loads around.  It would also be cheaper although this may not be an issue anyway.  

scottishblondie

Lover_of_Lycra said:

If it really is a Short Assured Tenancy and not an Assured Tenancy (were the tenants given an AT5 form prior to signing the tenancy?) you don’t need a ground to evict so you could issue a Section 33 giving 6 months notice before you go to the FTT for an eviction order. You’d also need to issue a notice to quit that ties in with ish (no that’s not a spelling mistake) date. 

The AT5 was definitely issued, I have a copy of it alongside the tenancy agreement.  Good to know I don't actually need a ground to evict, I had thought I would need something behind it.

Lover_of_Lycra said:
The notice periods might be 6 months but the sooner you start the sooner they’ll be out. I know it sounds harsh but these are not people I would want as tenants. 

I think I'm really too soft to be a LL - I've let them away with far too much for far too long mainly because I didn't want things to turn unpleasant.  I have threatened to evict previously because of their persistent late payments or when the rent arrears have crept too high, but as is evident I've never followed through!

Lover_of_Lycra said:
Are you positive that the tenancy “rolled on to month by month” once the initial fixed term ended? Did the SAT agreement say that would happen or is it silent on the matter? 

Yes, the agreement specified that it would roll on to month by month.  I believe it said 2 months notice from my side and one from them, which is of course now extended by the new Covid laws.

macman

Unless you think that they will move out of their own volition (and why would they when you have for 4 years allowed them to consistently have high levels of arrears-from what you say, their arrears have long pre-dated any impact of coronavirus), then I can see no reason for you not to start eviction proceedings. As per the good advice above, serve both S21 and S8, if Scottish law allows on the same basis as England.

You may well be correct in that the rent payments may cease after you give notice, but that is going to be the same situation whether you give notice now or 6 months down the road, and, unless you believe that in the next few months they are magically going to repay all the existing arrears, then there is no reason to delay. The court backlog is not going to be any shorter in 6m time.

Sorry to be blunt, but the issue here is that you've shown yourself to be a soft touch by tolerating the arrears from 2016, and they are seeking to exploit that. Once the arrears exceeded 2 months, you should have served an S8 on them, even if you did not intend to evict.

Under the present English emergency legislation, you can still seek an eviction order if arrears exceed 6m-not sure what the situation is in Scotland.

Your other option if you want to speed things up is to sell the property with the tenancy in place as a BTL, but obviously there will be a big hit on the price compared to sale with vacant possession.

[Deleted User]

macman said:

Unless you think that they will move out of their own volition (and why would they when you have for 4 years allowed them to consistently have high levels of arrears-from what you say, their arrears have long pre-dated any impact of coronavirus), then I can see no reason for you not to start eviction proceedings. As per the good advice above, serve both S21 and S8, if Scottish law allows on the same basis as England.

You may well be correct in that the rent payments may cease after you give notice, but that is going to be the same situation whether you give notice now or 6 months down the road, and, unless you believe that in the next few months they are magically going to repay all the existing arrears, then there is no reason to delay. The court backlog is not going to be any shorter in 6m time.

Sorry to be blunt, but the issue here is that you've shown yourself to be a soft touch by tolerating the arrears from 2016, and they are seeking to exploit that. Once the arrears exceeded 2 months, you should have served an S8 on them, even if you did not intend to evict.

Under the present English emergency legislation, you can still seek an eviction order if arrears exceed 6m-not sure what the situation is in Scotland.

Your other option if you want to speed things up is to sell the property with the tenancy in place as a BTL, but obviously there will be a big hit on the price compared to sale with vacant possession.

Scottish law is not the same as English law. Section 8 and Section 21 notices do not apply. 

I’m not sure why posters, and I’m not just referring to macnan, whilst well meaning keep posting about English law or giving advice based on English law on threads where English law does not apply. 

d2446679

Can you consider writing off some or all of the arrears in return for them moving out (permanently) earlier than the now usual 6 months?

theartfullodger

What training have you done as a landlord in Scottish landlord/tenant law please?? e.g from

https://www.landlordaccreditationscotland.com/landlord-training/

(I ask as someone who started thinking I knew everything, no education, back in 2000, found out I'd made complex, expensive, long-drawn-out, can;t-evict, daft mistakes (Scottish SaT that wasn't)).  Ah the stupidity, ah the hubris.

Have you spoken to free-to-members SaL helpline/??

https://scottishlandlords.com/advice/

You might wish to engage one of the specialist Scottish private rentals solicitors, quite often mentioned or featured by SaL

Slàinte mhath!

scottishblondie

@theartfullodger I've not done any formal training, I simply read up on the whole process.  I will assure you, however, that I've been a fully compliant LL as long as I've been letting the property.  I didn't buy it as an investment (it was originally my home) but I made a decision to become a LL and have been careful to do my best to be a good one.  It seems I lack the stomach to deal with bad tenants, however!  When it comes down to it I think I will engage a specialist solicitor to deal with getting them out.

I received word from them last night that they will not be moving out to allow the work to take place.  The wife is unwell and doesn't feel she can move out, but they've given no indication if or when she will be well enough.  So that's that for now.  Everything has been put on hold. 

On the upside, they have apparently given away the dog.  

Joyful

Surely there must be a way for you to get them to leave for the repairs to be done. What happens if the floor gives way due to damp? Health and safety should be a point here.