Buying a house with tree not pruned for 20 years having TPO

MoneyCopier

Hi All,
I am looking to buy a property which has 2 very large (18m) conifer trees that have not been pruned for 20+ years according to the seller. The trees have TPO and I checked with the council that any pruning or trimming or bringing any sharp objects near the tree will require permission from them. I love trees and everything and but these two trees are massive, like approximated 18M in height each and 3 meters in diameter each. Since these are side by side, they do block a lot of sunlight for the south facing garden. The lack of sunlight is such an issue that the survey report mentioned (as an opinion) that the sellers have put astro in place where sunlight never reaches and grass never grows. The trees give necessary privacy from adjacent properties to I appreciate that also. I am a bit worried about a few things so wanted some guidance and opinions in the matters below.
1. These trees, due to their height, will keep on requiring some pruning every few years. Is this a cost that I should consider for my on going maintenance. Like is it a substantial cost in people's experience?
2. Does pruning have any adverse effect on the soli drainage which I should be worried about?
3. The council said that I can prune maximum of 30% but that doesn't make sense to me if the tree has not been pruned for 20 years. Is 30% normally of current and can I prune 30% every year. Obviously I want to find a balance between healthy tree, aesthetics and privacy but this arbitrary figure of 30% doesn't make sense. In its current state, 30% would hardly make a difference so will I be able to prune it again next year?

Finally, what is the experience in general with TPO massively overgrown trees? Survey said that the tree does not pose any risk to the property because it is more than 15m away and from the property. Is this something that can cause a problem in future and can tree roots grow to the extent in future to cause risk?

Thanks!

45002

MoneyCopier said:

Hi All,
I am looking to buy a property which has 2 very large (18m) conifer trees that have not been pruned for 20+ years according to the seller. The trees have TPO and I checked with the council that any pruning or trimming or bringing any sharp objects near the tree will require permission from them. I love trees and everything and but these two trees are massive, like approximated 18M in height each and 3 meters in diameter each. Since these are side by side, they do block a lot of sunlight for the south facing garden. The lack of sunlight is such an issue that the survey report mentioned (as an opinion) that the sellers have put astro in place where sunlight never reaches and grass never grows. The trees give necessary privacy from adjacent properties to I appreciate that also. I am a bit worried about a few things so wanted some guidance and opinions in the matters below.
1. These trees, due to their height, will keep on requiring some pruning every few years. Is this a cost that I should consider for my on going maintenance. Like is it a substantial cost in people's experience?
2. Does pruning have any adverse effect on the soli drainage which I should be worried about?
3. The council said that I can prune maximum of 30% but that doesn't make sense to me if the tree has not been pruned for 20 years. Is 30% normally of current and can I prune 30% every year. Obviously I want to find a balance between healthy tree, aesthetics and privacy but this arbitrary figure of 30% doesn't make sense. In its current state, 30% would hardly make a difference so will I be able to prune it again next year?

Finally, what is the experience in general with TPO massively overgrown trees? Survey said that the tree does not pose any risk to the property because it is more than 15m away and from the property. Is this something that can cause a problem in future and can tree roots grow to the extent in future to cause risk?

Thanks!

Some bedtime reading for you here https://www.gov.uk/guidance/tree-preservation-orders-and-trees-in-conservation-areas

davidmcn

I presume it's explained further in that link, but bear in mind a TPO does not mean that nothing can ever be done to the trees, it just means you need to apply for (and be granted) consent before you can carry out work.

Have a look through TPO applications on your council's website and you'll get an idea.

AdrianC

First question... What type of conifer is it?

Some don't regrow if you prune back beyond the current greenery.

You can prune 30% - and, then, next year, maybe you can prune another 30%. And then the year after, you can prune another 30%. If you prune HARD straight off, all at once, the tree may not recover.

macman

If you prune it 30% each time over a 12m period then you will have reduced it to under 50% of the original size in a year, so hardly 'not making a difference'.

leonj

Why do you think that these trees require pruning?

princeofpounds

Yes tree maintenance is a cost you will need to budget for. As well as pruning (if it is possible at all on this species), you'll also need to pay to take the tree down at end-of-life, although that could be decades away.

How much it costs? It varies hugely depending on location and equipment required. I got two medium ash trees pruned for £300 where I live now. I got two hyuuuge ash trees in a very complicated position pruned for £2400 when I lived in an expensive part of the country.

What pruning you can do with a conifer depends very much on the type of the tree. You can't just assume you will be able to cut it back. However, from your description of size I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like a Monterey Pine, which can have branches removed without looking weird. Got a photo? It should be quite evident what can be done based on the biology, if not the TPO!

Generally tree officers are reasonable people. Within certain limits they are often ok with crown reductions, particularly if it's a reputable firm applying to do the work on your behalf. There is nothing stopping you asking them directly for some informal thoughts. It's highly unlikely they will let you do multiple crown reductions in consecutive years however - if the tree is at a certain size, it's likely to need to stay at a certain size, pruning ifs for maintenance, not shrinking.

As for drainage - the amount of pruning you are likely to be looking at shouldn't affect anything. Big trees can absolutely cause problems for houses, but the risk falls rapidly the further away you are. If the tree has been there a long time (it has) and the house has been there a long time, and there is no indication of movement on the house, you're probably going to be alright. The table in the link below can show you the sort of distances we are talking about.

https://clarkewilliamsinsurancebrokers.co.uk/blog/tree-influencing-distance-information-for-property-insurance/

elsien

We used to have two trees with preservation orders in them - can’t remember what they were now but they were huge l, close to the house and blocked out a lot of light. And were a pain when the needles kept dropping into the guttering. 
It was an ongoing expense because we weren’t allowed to take much off at a time so it needed doing every 2 or 3 years. 

Maybe get a quote to give you some idea of the ongoing costs. 

On a positive note, they didn’t seem to have any impact on the building itself, gutters aside. 

sgun

30% is the maximum you should prune in any one growing season. It's not arbitrary, it's good practice. 
What type of conifers are they? If you just top them then they may well just grow outwards which will cause you more problems. Your tree surgeon should be able to advise about exactly what should be done to the trees to either thin them or reduce them and should tell you exactly how the tree will respond. If they can't do that, or just go in for a straight 30% height reduction then don't use them.
I doubt that the council will let you prune them again the next year. How would you feel if you aren't granted permission to take off 30%? 

MoneyCopier

davidmcn said:

I presume it's explained further in that link, but bear in mind a TPO does not mean that nothing can ever be done to the trees, it just means you need to apply for (and be granted) consent before you can carry out work.

Have a look through TPO applications on your council's website and you'll get an idea.

Thanks. I looked at the applications on my road. Most of the 'fell' applications on TPO trees were rejected except one which was allowed to make way for some development but I guess those were exceptional conditions. I get the impression that council is ok with pruning applications but I am more worried about total cost of ownership as I haven't lived in properties with trees.

MoneyCopier

sgun said:

30% is the maximum you should prune in any one growing season. It's not arbitrary, it's good practice. 
What type of conifers are they? If you just top them then they may well just grow outwards which will cause you more problems. Your tree surgeon should be able to advise about exactly what should be done to the trees to either thin them or reduce them and should tell you exactly how the tree will respond. If they can't do that, or just go in for a straight 30% height reduction then don't use them.
I doubt that the council will let you prune them again the next year. How would you feel if you aren't granted permission to take off 30%? 

I have asked the sellers about exact type of tree these are but given that they never showed any interest in these for 20 years they were not sure on type and specifics about it. I have asked a tree savvy person to take a look and advice on the type.
One interesting point you mention:
"If you just top them then they may well just grow outwards which will cause you more problems."
So, that is interesting. The more I read about it, it seems that a professional tree surgeon must be able to advice on many things after inspection. The problem we are trying to solve is to get more light in the property and if anything has an adverse effect on this then it would be a problem as property would feel dark most of the time even on sunny days.