Self Charging Hybrid benefits??

AdrianC

bhjm said:

depending on the type of hybrid, even suzuki markets some of the cars as hybrids, although they use the starter motor as a motor assistant while accelerating.  WHich is for me not a proper hybrid - but is is one in fact in some sort of, but it carries much less weight.

Mild Hybrid is the term you're after there.

ontheroad1970

AdrianC said:

bhjm said:

depending on the type of hybrid, even suzuki markets some of the cars as hybrids, although they use the starter motor as a motor assistant while accelerating.  WHich is for me not a proper hybrid - but is is one in fact in some sort of, but it carries much less weight.

Mild Hybrid is the term you're after there.

I think completely pointless is the term that should be used.  For me the jury is out on the self charging.  But 'mild hybrid'?  Apart from marketing, what's the point?

AdrianC

ontheroad1970 said:

AdrianC said:

bhjm said:

depending on the type of hybrid, even suzuki markets some of the cars as hybrids, although they use the starter motor as a motor assistant while accelerating.  WHich is for me not a proper hybrid - but is is one in fact in some sort of, but it carries much less weight.

Mild Hybrid is the term you're after there.

I think completely pointless is the term that should be used.  For me the jury is out on the self charging.  But 'mild hybrid'?  Apart from marketing, what's the point?

A cynic might consider it merely another layer of added complexity helping to artificially skew that balance between emissions test results and performance.

Ditzy_Mitzy

AdrianC said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

AdrianC said:

ComicGeek said:

Yes it is an AWD rather than 4x4

How many wheels does it have?

Aww come on now, you're just pointlessly picking holes.  You know he/she means 'AWD' in the sense of a car that's primarily two wheel drive but has the ability to very occasionally send power to the generally undriven wheels rather than '4x4' in the sense of a proper fully engaged four wheel drive or mechanical transfer case off-roading setup.  It's a commonly drawn distinction and I've heard it expressed in those terms elsewhere.  

Yes, a lot of people spout things that are utterly incorrect. That doesn't affect what it actually means...

4x4 = four wheels, four driven wheels
AWD = All wheels driven. It includes 4x4, 6x6, 8x8
4wd = Four wheels driven. It includes 4x4, 6x4, 8x4

Part-time or full-time is a separate question. But if you want some illustrations of how part- or full-time does not affect anything very much in terms of off-road ability...
Part-time 4x4...



Full-time 4x4...

That last one is an Audi A3, which doesn't have permanently engaged all-wheel-drive.  It's front wheel drive most of the time 

AdrianC

It's an 8V S3. Permanent 4wd, with a 5th generation Haldex centre diff.

Ditzy_Mitzy

AdrianC said:

It's an 8V S3. Permanent 4wd, with a 5th generation Haldex centre diff.

As the Haldex setup is capable of complete disconnection of power from the rear wheels, it is not a permanent AWD setup.  All A3 Quattro models can run with only the front wheels driven, and the majority will do when travelling in a straight line in good conditions.  

gzoom

ontheroad1970 said:

AdrianC said:

bhjm said:

depending on the type of hybrid, even suzuki markets some of the cars as hybrids, although they use the starter motor as a motor assistant while accelerating.  WHich is for me not a proper hybrid - but is is one in fact in some sort of, but it carries much less weight.

Mild Hybrid is the term you're after there.

I think completely pointless is the term that should be used.  For me the jury is out on the self charging.  But 'mild hybrid'?  Apart from marketing, what's the point?

Read up on thermal efficiency of Otto versus Atkinson combustion cycles. Its physics not marketing.

princeofpounds

gzoom said:

Read up on thermal efficiency of Otto versus Atkinson combustion cycles. Its physics not marketing.

I think people are still struggling with the idea that an ICE operating in conjunction with an electric engine is a very different engineering proposition than an ICE operating without one.

Whether it's worth the complexity and resources for the gains is another question. For some use cases yes, but I doubt for all.

AdrianC

princeofpounds said:

gzoom said:

Read up on thermal efficiency of Otto versus Atkinson combustion cycles. Its physics not marketing.

I think people are still struggling with the idea that an ICE operating in conjunction with an electric engine is a very different engineering proposition than an ICE operating without one.

In what way "very different"...?

Mild-hybrid? Where there's a small electric push every now and then?
"Trad" hybrid? Where the petrol engine does the vast majority of the work, and the electricity just helps a bit, but can pootle a short way at low speed?
Plugin hybrid? Where it's actually capable of non-trivial EV-only?
Range-assist? Where the ICE is just generating electricity like... well, like a diesel-electric train or ship.
All fit your "ICE operating in conjunction with an electric engine".

The benefit with Atkinson is that the efficiency is focussed in a relatively narrow rev range. That's more to do with the use of a CVT than anything else - and CVTs aren't exclusive to hybrids. That's at a big efficiency cost outside that narrow rev range. And Atkinson is still Otto - four-stroke, suck/squeeze/bang/blow - just a refinement of it. The main difference is valve timing, and that's easily changeable on-the-fly with modern VVT, so one engine can operate in both "trad" Otto and Atkinson at different parts of the rev range. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKKILW3Zj_Y&t=1m14s

HansOndabush

If you are looking at secondhand hybrids, then imho, the likely maintenance and repair costs of the extremely complex systems and poor access to components more than nullifies any economy saving from actual driving. (just like old gas boilers that go on forever whereas the new 'efficient' ones cost more in repairs/replacement than you save on fuel)