Employer refusing to close

Apintplease

poppy12345 said:

Apintplease said:

MarkN88 said:

Apintplease said:

MarkN88 said:

Apintplease said:

I dont think the Gvt has updated the guidelines as yet for HE and are still working on the Tiers rulings

There are no tiers at the moment. Full national lockdown. 

re read what I wrote

What tiers are you referring to then? 

What bit of the government haven't updated and the rulings are still working on the tiers is it you dont understand? Or are you just being obtuse?

We here in NI are still out on a limb with schools and churches, until they finalise their rulings for this new lockdown we are still following what you had as tiers and we had as our previous lockdown

Here in England the Tiers have been replaced with a full lockdown.

I fully understand that, I know that, Ive read that, Ive been told that, I read and understand English extremely well. 

What not one of you who are jumping down my throat are reading, is the GOVERMENT HAVENT actually finalised on the rulings for SE as a whole so at this time, SE are having to follow what is already in legislation

Now I dont know for sure because we didn't do tiers, but as of Monday it was a staggered return??? That some pupils were still given full access to campus?? As I say Im not 100%, all I do know is not one gvt has decided on a blanket policy that is now law under the new lockdown

Barny1979

Did you mention Northern Ireland though originally, or just go off and state someone was obtuse?

Apintplease

Barny1979 said:

Did you mention Northern Ireland though originally, or just go off and state someone was obtuse?

please go look at my first reply - the one directly under the OP

[Deleted User]

Apintplease said:

MarkN88 said:

Apintplease said:

MarkN88 said:

Apintplease said:

I dont think the Gvt has updated the guidelines as yet for HE and are still working on the Tiers rulings

There are no tiers at the moment. Full national lockdown. 

re read what I wrote

What tiers are you referring to then? 

What bit of the government haven't updated and the rulings are still working on the tiers is it you dont understand? Or are you just being obtuse?

We here in NI are still out on a limb with schools and churches, until they finalise their rulings for this new lockdown we are still following what you had as tiers and we had as our previous lockdown

I was asking a serious question. Where did you mention you were referring to NI?

Barny1979

Apintplease said:

I dont think the Gvt has updated the guidelines as yet for HE and are still working on the Tiers rulings

Where is reference to NI?

elsien

Try not to conflate the covid concerns with the other issues you mention. 
No annual pay rise is the norm for a fair few of us, and doesn’t equate to being treated badly by your employer. 

Nor does closing early and using leave to cover - that’s a reasonable expectation and isn’t taking your leave from you,
Concentrate on dealing with the issues you have now. 

MoonChild91

elsien said:

Try not to conflate the covid concerns with the other issues you mention. 
No annual pay rise is the norm for a fair few of us, and doesn’t equate to being treated badly by your employer. 

Nor does closing early and using leave to cover - that’s a reasonable expectation and isn’t taking your leave from you,
Concentrate on dealing with the issues you have now. 

Probably should have mentioned that the annual pay rise is in our contracts - we move up one step on the pay spine for each year of service, but it's just been ignored this year. Contracts were also altered a few months ago to enable annual leave to be removed from our allowances, it wasn't something which would have been able to happen before.

But ok, what should I do about the current issues?

epm-84

From gov.uk

Those students who are undertaking training and study for the following courses should return to face to face learning as planned:

• Medicine & dentistry
• Subjects allied to medicine/health
• Veterinary science
• Education (initial teacher training)
• Social work
• Courses which require Professional, Statutory and Regulatory Body (PSRB) assessments and or mandatory activity which is scheduled for January and which cannot be rescheduled (your university will notify you if this applies to you).

Returning students should be tested twice upon their return to university, or they should self-isolate for ten days instead.

Students who are not on these courses should remain where they are wherever possible, and start their term online, as facilitated by their university or college until at least mid-February. This includes students on other practical courses not on the list above.

We have previously published guidance to universities and students on how students can return safely to higher education in the spring term. This guidance sets out how we will support higher education providers to enable students that need to return to do so as safely as possible following the winter break.

If you live at university, you should not move back and forward between your permanent home and student home during term time.

For those students who are eligible for face to face teaching, you can meet in groups of more than your household as part of your formal education or training, where necessary. Students should expect to follow the guidance and restrictions. You should socially distance from anyone you do not live with wherever possible.

MattMattMattUK

MoonChild91 said:

But ok, what should I do about the current issues?

You need to establish what the actual issue is, rather than getting all wrapped up in emotion.

Has your employer conducted risk assessments for Covid-Secure, have these been shared with you and are they being complied with? 
What is their mask and hand sanitation policy, are you wearing a mask, sanitising, and are other members of staff doing so? Have masks, hand washing facilities and hand sanitiser stations been provided?
Are acrylic screens in place on desks in customer facing roles (eg main reception).
The government guidelines say you should work from home where possible, but if you are unable to do so you can go to work. You need to establish if you can genuinely work from home, not just think you can, or that you can do most of your work from home. This means it also needs to be reasonably possible, rather than just technically feasible. 

MoonChild91 said:
It's now 2 days since the government lockdown announcement and we have had no information whatsoever from senior management, and no emails or information has been sent to students. They were emailed previously to say that those with exceptional circumstances could access the buildings to use facilities such as the art studios and the main library, which hasn't been updated. 

They are not actually compelled to close at the moment. As it currently stands the guidance is pending "The national lockdown changes what you can do from 5 January 2021. This guidance will be updated shortly to provide further details on those changes." They will be waiting on the guidance from government, at the moment they can not close, but students should obey the rules regarding travel, leaving home etc. however it would appear to be impossible to access an art studio or main library from home.

MoonChild91 said:
We aren't allowed to check what students circumstances are so in reality any of them can just walk in no questions asked.

Nor will you be able to, data protection stops that. 

MoonChild91 said:
Students are still coming onto the campus, there is no booking system in place, and they aren't required to have a covid test before doing so, and we've been told not to stop them.

There is no requirement for a booking system, nor for them to have a Covid test. 

MoonChild91 said:
Management have all started working from home, but anyone who has a student facing role (I work in administration) is expected to come in

Unfortunately this sounds like they are complying with the rules. Management, in non student facing roles can work from home, those with face to face roles can obviously not work from home. 

MoonChild91 said:
Part of my job is also answering phone calls and constantly dealing with students and parents ringing up asking what's going on without being able to give them any information is becoming increasingly stressful and we're increasingly dealing with parents becoming angry and borderline abusive which is a lot to handle. I was repeatedly shouted at and put in difficult situations during the last spike in October and November, and the amount of abuse I've had to handle over the phone since then is not ok. 

This is difficult and can be unpleasant, but you will just have to deal with it. Unfortunately in life we all have to deal with unpleasant people at various point, this is no different. All colleges and universities are required to have a verbal and physical abuse policy, these will detail what you can do in response and what the management is required to do. Your part will probably involve warning the person that they are abusive then hanging up if they continue, or of on campus then having the campus security remove them from the site. If people are angry that is just something you will have to deal with.

Once you have established the actual issues you need to break them down into Covid related issues and HR related issues, they can then be addressed to the correct people and if necessary raised to a higher level. Your MP, the HSE, the local council if council run, the DfE etc. all could have a role depending on the actual issues. You need to stick to the facts of the situation, not the emotion, how you feel about it is irrelevant, the question is are they compliant with the legislation. 

MoonChild91

MattMattMattUK said:

MoonChild91 said:

But ok, what should I do about the current issues?

You need to establish what the actual issue is, rather than getting all wrapped up in emotion.

Has your employer conducted risk assessments for Covid-Secure, have these been shared with you and are they being complied with? 
What is their mask and hand sanitation policy, are you wearing a mask, sanitising, and are other members of staff doing so? Have masks, hand washing facilities and hand sanitiser stations been provided?
Are acrylic screens in place on desks in customer facing roles (eg main reception).
The government guidelines say you should work from home where possible, but if you are unable to do so you can go to work. You need to establish if you can genuinely work from home, not just think you can, or that you can do most of your work from home. This means it also needs to be reasonably possible, rather than just technically feasible. 

MoonChild91 said:
It's now 2 days since the government lockdown announcement and we have had no information whatsoever from senior management, and no emails or information has been sent to students. They were emailed previously to say that those with exceptional circumstances could access the buildings to use facilities such as the art studios and the main library, which hasn't been updated. 

They are not actually compelled to close at the moment. As it currently stands the guidance is pending "The national lockdown changes what you can do from 5 January 2021. This guidance will be updated shortly to provide further details on those changes." They will be waiting on the guidance from government, at the moment they can not close, but students should obey the rules regarding travel, leaving home etc. however it would appear to be impossible to access an art studio or main library from home.

MoonChild91 said:
We aren't allowed to check what students circumstances are so in reality any of them can just walk in no questions asked.

Nor will you be able to, data protection stops that. 

MoonChild91 said:
Students are still coming onto the campus, there is no booking system in place, and they aren't required to have a covid test before doing so, and we've been told not to stop them.

There is no requirement for a booking system, nor for them to have a Covid test. 

MoonChild91 said:
Management have all started working from home, but anyone who has a student facing role (I work in administration) is expected to come in

Unfortunately this sounds like they are complying with the rules. Management, in non student facing roles can work from home, those with face to face roles can obviously not work from home. 

MoonChild91 said:
Part of my job is also answering phone calls and constantly dealing with students and parents ringing up asking what's going on without being able to give them any information is becoming increasingly stressful and we're increasingly dealing with parents becoming angry and borderline abusive which is a lot to handle. I was repeatedly shouted at and put in difficult situations during the last spike in October and November, and the amount of abuse I've had to handle over the phone since then is not ok. 

This is difficult and can be unpleasant, but you will just have to deal with it. Unfortunately in life we all have to deal with unpleasant people at various point, this is no different. All colleges and universities are required to have a verbal and physical abuse policy, these will detail what you can do in response and what the management is required to do. Your part will probably involve warning the person that they are abusive then hanging up if they continue, or of on campus then having the campus security remove them from the site. If people are angry that is just something you will have to deal with.

Once you have established the actual issues you need to break them down into Covid related issues and HR related issues, they can then be addressed to the correct people and if necessary raised to a higher level. Your MP, the HSE, the local council if council run, the DfE etc. all could have a role depending on the actual issues. You need to stick to the facts of the situation, not the emotion, how you feel about it is irrelevant, the question is are they compliant with the legislation. 

Risk assessments were done by line managers, some of whom have no training in them, back in August. These haven't been updated since then and we don't have access to them. Masks and sanitiser are available in certain locations, and we have to wear masks when walking through the building and in certain offices, but not when sat behind a screen or in individual rooms. We have a screen on the desk, but it covers 2ft of a 10ft desk and we've repeatedly raised that we don't feel it's adequate with no response. I have to take my mask off constantly to answer the phone and we have not been provided with headsets so several of us share one receiver, as well as a computer and keyboard. We sanitise these as best we can. We also have students working on the desk with us. Most of my job can be done from home, the rest would be possible if we were set up with work phones and the PO Box reinstated like the last lockdown.

Our library is entirely accessible online, and several courses don't have traditional studios (just rooms with desks) which are easily something many students already have in halls/homes. We don't teach any of the courses which are allowed to have face to face teaching but workshop instructors are still being asked to facilitate students using them, which is surely a form of teaching.

There might not be a requirement to have a booking system in place, but it seems sensible to start one to ensure that certain areas can maintain social distancing. At present we could have 25 students on campus, all in the same area with no one aware of this. At the moment they're just relying on students following the rules which has been proven several times to not work (students have had to be removed from campus previously for attending when they have been told to isolate and had symptoms or lied about who they lived with in order to work together).

If we have a physical and verbal abuse policy I've never seen it, and have previously been chastised by a manager for ending a call with someone who was physically threatening me and swearing down the phone. We have repeatedly asked for training to deal with abusive and emotionally distressed called over the last 10 months (after a particularly horrible incident which ending in the police being called) but have not had any replies to this.