Housing Association now wants rent up front DURING tenancy

HouseTargaryen

I have a friend who has been with a Housing Association for 8 years. At the time she moved in, she paid no rent up front, just a £100 deposit and paid her rent at the end of her tenancy. Now they have contacted her to tell her that there is a change of policy and they are asking for the month's rent up front. They want her to agree to an arrangement to pay off her "arrears" she now has of 1 months rent. 

Is this even legal? She is disabled and get PIP and can't work. She already has to claim Discretionary Housing Payment to cover a spare room that she needs due to her disability. It's almost £500 that they have now want from her. Even at £50 a month for 10 months, that's money she doesn't want to pay. She is also annoyed that she is now in arrears due to no fault of her own.

Does anyone know if this is within the law for landlords/HA's?

HouseTargaryen

Sorry that should say "paid her rent at the end of the month".

princeofpounds

It is legal to propose a new contractual arrangement. 

She is not currently in arrears, as she has (again presumably) not agreed to a new contract. However she should check her original contract to make sure that she has not misunderstood her agreement - it's possible, for example, that she was always contractually obliged to pay in advance but the HA chose not to enforce it.

However, the HA would be able to force this through when she has to next renew her contract. And if she is on an open-ended contract then they would have to terminate her contract if they wanted to push this through. That would take quite a while and although it may not be possible under Covid regulations it probably could be done eventually. 

She should write back to them after checking her contract and say something like: 
'Following the recent conversation we had where I was asked to start paying one month's rent in advance - I have consulted my contract and this does not appear to be an agreed requirement (paste actual terms around payment) - I therefore will not be doing so at this stage as it may cause me some financial hardship. I am open to discuss further if necessary'. 

They may come back with something that resembles more of a threat to terminate the tenancy (although one hopes that they would frame it as an explanation first!). Then she should pivot to negotiating the easiest transition to a new arrangement.

It is of course possible to just have the discussion verbally too, but if you run into a parroting of 'it's just our policy' then it won't be a very useful discussion. Then it might be best to elevate to a manager for a real explanation, including of what happens if she chooses to stick to the original contract as is her right (until it is terminated of course).

To be frank this sounds a bit odd, unless they have already been tolerating late payment from her for some time. 

AdrianC

She won't be paying a penny extra over the long term - when she moves out, she won't have to pay a month's rent after leaving. 

It's just an inconvenience to get from paying at the end of the month to paying at the start, which is certainly the more normal arrangement. She will still pay twelve months rent for twelve months accommodation.

It's not that she's "now in arrears through no fault of her own" - she's always been paying her rent in arrears since moving in. Will they allow a longer taper period, maybe 24 months, so ~£20/mo?

But the important question - what does her tenancy say? All that's really happening is that her rent payment date is changing.

Chandler85

Check her contract, she probably should have been paying in advance for 8 years but they haven't been to fussed before.

It isn't the HA fault that she is disabled, not that she claims PIP and can't work, nor the discretionary housing payment, they don't do nor decide any of this.

"Money she doesn't want to pay" is not really a reason to not pay the rent on time if the contract states it should be paid in advance.

HouseTargaryen

AdrianC said:

She won't be paying a penny extra over the long term - when she moves out, she won't have to pay a month's rent after leaving. 

It's just an inconvenience to get from paying at the end of the month to paying at the start, which is certainly the more normal arrangement. She will still pay twelve months rent for twelve months accommodation.

It's not that she's "now in arrears through no fault of her own" - she's always been paying her rent in arrears since moving in. Will they allow a longer taper period, maybe 24 months, so ~£20/mo?

But the important question - what does her tenancy say? All that's really happening is that her rent payment date is changing.

Yes she's been paying her monthly rent "in arrears" but she has never been arrears; her rent account has never once been in the red. Yes you're right about when she moves out. Thing is, unless it's to a care home or a funeral directors, she's not moving out, so it will feel like a monetary loss. Yes hopefully they will allow for a longer period to pay it off. But she's stubborn and is refusing to pay a penny. I really can't imagine a judge agreeing to evict a disabled person for £400 rent arrears under these circumstances. Ever.

HouseTargaryen

princeofpounds said:

It is legal to propose a new contractual arrangement. 

She is not currently in arrears, as she has (again presumably) not agreed to a new contract. However she should check her original contract to make sure that she has not misunderstood her agreement - it's possible, for example, that she was always contractually obliged to pay in advance but the HA chose not to enforce it.

However, the HA would be able to force this through when she has to next renew her contract. And if she is on an open-ended contract then they would have to terminate her contract if they wanted to push this through. That would take quite a while and although it may not be possible under Covid regulations it probably could be done eventually. 

She should write back to them after checking her contract and say something like: 
'Following the recent conversation we had where I was asked to start paying one month's rent in advance - I have consulted my contract and this does not appear to be an agreed requirement (paste actual terms around payment) - I therefore will not be doing so at this stage as it may cause me some financial hardship. I am open to discuss further if necessary'. 

They may come back with something that resembles more of a threat to terminate the tenancy (although one hopes that they would frame it as an explanation first!). Then she should pivot to negotiating the easiest transition to a new arrangement.

It is of course possible to just have the discussion verbally too, but if you run into a parroting of 'it's just our policy' then it won't be a very useful discussion. Then it might be best to elevate to a manager for a real explanation, including of what happens if she chooses to stick to the original contract as is her right (until it is terminated of course).

To be frank this sounds a bit odd, unless they have already been tolerating late payment from her for some time. 

Thanks for your advice and others, I will pass this to her. 

Ratkin007

your friend pays her rent in arrears but is not in arrears, hmmm.   Check tenancy agreement as it may be that her rent is due weekly but she has opted to pay monthly or if getting hb that is paid 4 weekly. 
You've mentioned discretionary payments for the spare room which is required due to disability. Is that for overnight care or additional space. If overnight care, isn't there an allowance for that, I know there was for HB not sure about UC.  In terms of rent, many Housing Associations ask tenants to build up credit of 4 weeks including those that have housing benefit paid to them directly.  It is mainly to cover the 4 week period at the end of the tenancy as when a tenant in receipt of hb dies, the hb stops the following Monday. However 4 weeks notice is still required building 4 weeks debt which is unlikely to be recovered.

tinytiddles

I’ve been working in social housing for the past 17 years and I’ve never known it to be OK to pay rent monthly in arrears. The rent at my housing association is due weekly in advance although with the onset of welfare reform and Universal Credit being paid monthly instead of weekly HB we do require rent to be paid monthly in advance for new tenancies.
I would strongly advise they check their tenancy agreement as the rent frequencies will be stated in there, but I suspect that she may have been doing this out of convenience and the landlord isn’t willing to accept it any more.
Social landlords are not in the business of making life difficult financially but tenants do have to abide by their tenancy agreement, all I can suggest is that, if this change will mean hardship as she clears the initial arrears, to speak to the landlord - it is very unlikely they will expect an overpayment of £50 a week, they will usually even take a tenner (I have even known it to be a fiver!) - the key to them accepting a payment arrangement will be making sure the extra payment gets made week in week out and they will leave her alone. 

HampshireH

Its bad advice to tell them they are not in arrears without knowing the tenancy.

It's highly unlikely they are offering a new tenancy with new terms.

Her current tenancy will most likely have a weekly or monthly rent in advance.

Never seen one allowing payment in arrears. 

Just because she has been paying in arrears (and yes her account will show it until it's paid) doesn't make it right.

They will accept an arrangement 

Mgman1965

HouseTargaryen said:

AdrianC said:

She won't be paying a penny extra over the long term - when she moves out, she won't have to pay a month's rent after leaving. 

It's just an inconvenience to get from paying at the end of the month to paying at the start, which is certainly the more normal arrangement. She will still pay twelve months rent for twelve months accommodation.

It's not that she's "now in arrears through no fault of her own" - she's always been paying her rent in arrears since moving in. Will they allow a longer taper period, maybe 24 months, so ~£20/mo?

But the important question - what does her tenancy say? All that's really happening is that her rent payment date is changing.

Yes she's been paying her monthly rent "in arrears" but she has never been arrears; her rent account has never once been in the red. Yes you're right about when she moves out. Thing is, unless it's to a care home or a funeral directors, she's not moving out, so it will feel like a monetary loss. Yes hopefully they will allow for a longer period to pay it off. But she's stubborn and is refusing to pay a penny. I really can't imagine a judge agreeing to evict a disabled person for £400 rent arrears under these circumstances. Ever.

As to your last sentence, don't be so sure, the judge on the day may just do so if she goes in with "I'm not paying a penny" attitude and is seen to be difficult and intransigent. 

And if it was simply "you can't evict me for anything, I'm disabled" every disabled person could safely stop paying their rent.

And I speak as a disabled person.