Are off-licences to close ?

50Twuncle

According to https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9113833/Michael-Gove-warns-March-EARLIEST-lockdown-start-eased.html they are

"Takeaway alcohol sales will not be permitted in a bid to stop people congregating in the streets with drinks"

No mention of this elsewhere

And from March - offlicences were added to the list of essential stores

[Deleted User]

Takeaway alcohol sales is referring to from a pub or restaurant. 

od244051

Think many offies sell milk and a few groceries so they will stay open 

Jeremy535897

Off licences can remain open. See
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf

MattMattMattUK

It means that pubs and restaurants can no longer sell alcohol, even for takeaway.

It does seem ridiculous that off-licenses are allowed to stay home, the same with places of worship. Either we are trying to contain the virus with a proper lockdown, or we are pandering to alcoholic worshipers. The transmission risk for 2,000 at a football or rugby ground, standing outside, masked and socially distanced is considerably lower than the risk of transmission in an off-license, church or mosque. I fully agree with the need to reduce transmission and that necessitating a national lockdown, however the exceptions applied to restrictions do largely seem to be irrational and pandering to specific groups. 

Barny1979

MattMattMattUK said:

It means that pubs and restaurants can no longer sell alcohol, even for takeaway.

It does seem ridiculous that off-licenses are allowed to stay home, the same with places of worship. Either we are trying to contain the virus with a proper lockdown, or we are pandering to alcoholic worshipers. The transmission risk for 2,000 at a football or rugby ground, standing outside, masked and socially distanced is considerably lower than the risk of transmission in an off-license, church or mosque. I fully agree with the need to reduce transmission and that necessitating a national lockdown, however the exceptions applied to restrictions do largely seem to be irrational and pandering to specific groups. 

But if you shut off licences, you prejudice them, compared to supermarkets, also people who drink dependant who go cold turkey, could become seriously ill, causing more pressure on the NHS.

MattMattMattUK

Barny1979 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It means that pubs and restaurants can no longer sell alcohol, even for takeaway.

It does seem ridiculous that off-licenses are allowed to stay home, the same with places of worship. Either we are trying to contain the virus with a proper lockdown, or we are pandering to alcoholic worshipers. The transmission risk for 2,000 at a football or rugby ground, standing outside, masked and socially distanced is considerably lower than the risk of transmission in an off-license, church or mosque. I fully agree with the need to reduce transmission and that necessitating a national lockdown, however the exceptions applied to restrictions do largely seem to be irrational and pandering to specific groups. 

But if you shut off licences, you prejudice them, compared to supermarkets, also people who drink dependant who go cold turkey, could become seriously ill, causing more pressure on the NHS.

Well they have shut pubs and restaurants, which prejudice them, they have shut shops, vs online shopping, which prejudices them. Alcoholics could buy their alcohol in supermarkets if they are not willing to address that behaviour. Also only a very small percentage of alcoholics are so dependant that stopping drinking causes them to have a medical crisis, those would be the people consuming more than a bottle a day of spirits, probably would need to be at least two, the number of those people is so small that the additional pressure on the NHS would be tiny. 

Barny1979

Who knows what the tipping point of the NHS will be? Who knows after the last 9 months how many functioning/coping alcoholics there are now, that weren't before March?

MattMattMattUK

Barny1979 said:

Who knows what the tipping point of the NHS will be?

Around late January if the data is anything to go by and the new lockdown does not reduce the reproduction rate below 1.0 almost immediately, although by many measures it has already tipped. With non-essential treatments already being cancelled and cancer treatments and heart operations already being cancelled the prediction is that deaths from those diseases will rise significantly over the next few years.

Interestingly the data shows that the entire hospitality sector combined with the entire retail sector when open was responsible for around 4% of transmission, sports stadiums were responsible for zero cases, total cases from gyms were estimated at being at most a few hundred, where as educational settings are responsible for around 38% of transmission, with an additional 20% of transmission being in the home by someone that they lived with, from people who were infected in educational settings. 

*Note that it is not the principle of closing or not closing retail that I disagree with in relation to off licenses and places of communal worship, it is the contradiction of the exceptions, either allow essential places with low transmission to open, or do not, but it can not be argued that off-licenses and places of communal worship are essential, especially when pubs and restaurants are banned from selling takeaway alcohol and sports stadia are closed.

jimi_man

MattMattMattUK said:

Barny1979 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It means that pubs and restaurants can no longer sell alcohol, even for takeaway.

It does seem ridiculous that off-licenses are allowed to stay home, the same with places of worship. Either we are trying to contain the virus with a proper lockdown, or we are pandering to alcoholic worshipers. The transmission risk for 2,000 at a football or rugby ground, standing outside, masked and socially distanced is considerably lower than the risk of transmission in an off-license, church or mosque. I fully agree with the need to reduce transmission and that necessitating a national lockdown, however the exceptions applied to restrictions do largely seem to be irrational and pandering to specific groups. 

But if you shut off licences, you prejudice them, compared to supermarkets, also people who drink dependant who go cold turkey, could become seriously ill, causing more pressure on the NHS.

Well they have shut pubs and restaurants, which prejudice them, they have shut shops, vs online shopping, which prejudices them. Alcoholics could buy their alcohol in supermarkets if they are not willing to address that behaviour. Also only a very small percentage of alcoholics are so dependant that stopping drinking causes them to have a medical crisis, those would be the people consuming more than a bottle a day of spirits, probably would need to be at least two, the number of those people is so small that the additional pressure on the NHS would be tiny. 

I think that the shutting of pubs and restaurants is more to do with sitting around eating and drinking, whereas off licences and supermarkets cater for those who want to drink in the comfort of their own home. But yes there are always going to be anomolies. 

And yes, shutting shops does benefit online shopping more. Not sure what the answer to that one is.

In relation to the church, I think a lot of people - who may be more likely to be alone - gain comfort/solace from the church perhaps. Without generalising too much, I would imagine that the people who go to church are more likely to be responsible around social distancing, than the people who go to sporting fixtures, especially when you add in the element of alcohol that the is endemic in watching sport.

i think they realised after the last lockdown, that closing everything and confining people in their own home has the potential to be even more serious than Covid itself (over the long term) hence maybe why Churches (and Garden centres I think) are still open.

And you can still go out and meet a friend for a walk as well, which wasn't in Lockdown 1. 

Grumpy_chap

Barny1979 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

It means that pubs and restaurants can no longer sell alcohol, even for takeaway.

It does seem ridiculous that off-licenses are allowed to stay home, the same with places of worship. Either we are trying to contain the virus with a proper lockdown, or we are pandering to alcoholic worshipers. The transmission risk for 2,000 at a football or rugby ground, standing outside, masked and socially distanced is considerably lower than the risk of transmission in an off-license, church or mosque. I fully agree with the need to reduce transmission and that necessitating a national lockdown, however the exceptions applied to restrictions do largely seem to be irrational and pandering to specific groups. 

But if you shut off licences, you prejudice them, compared to supermarkets, also people who drink dependant who go cold turkey, could become seriously ill, causing more pressure on the NHS.

The same could be said about vape shops.