How much to live on

helensbiggestfan

I think tutoring is a fantastic thing to do.  And not just for the financial rewards.  Passing on one's knowledge and wisdom, especially to the generations that follow us has to be one of the best things we can do.  

And yes, as we glide into the new year here's to new experiences and living life to the max. 🥂. 

This weekend I shall ride out the expected bad weather by packing up some more boxes, ready for my house move.  I am soooooo looking forward to moving.  It will be the start of a whole new adventure .  So excited.!!!!   

no snow here yet .......

Albermarle

helensbiggestfan said:

LL_USS said:

Interesting discussion regarding risks...

It is indeed a culture-bound attitude. Chinese, South East people tend to take the golden middle point, not showing anything extreme especially in public, and call it "playing the stock market". Americans have higher percentage of their assets in stocks and shares whilst British favour a higher percentage in property (well, let's see how much this trend will change after all the tightening rules for the BTL sector).

Whilst I am risk-adverse in general, I still think if I don't try lots of things when I am still quite young then I will never experence these when I am older. I cycle to work even when I am warned our roads are not cyclist friendly. Scared at first but I thought "little kids could go so why not me", so I then went on all the most "scary" roller coaster rides when I took my children to Disney Land/ Alton Towers/ Thorpe park.... I ride a moped (only with a bit of hesitation ) when I travel in Asia. Perhaps still not skiing though :-).

My husband  and I used to go to a casino sometimes. I know, I know.  My poor dad was horrified,  but my husband and I enjoyed it.  We were sensible, we gave ourselves a budget and stuck to it. If we lost our stake we quit.  If we did well we quit whilst we were ahead.  Oddly enough our track record was pretty good.  Obviously the only real "winner" in the long term is the house , same with bookies.  

As an aside I once made a killing at Ascot on Ladies Day and all for a £1 stake. . There were 5 ladies in our group.  So for the first race we put £5 between us on no 5.  It won. Not knowing how to play the game properly we put the lot on no 5 for the second race. It won.  After that we did change our numbers but we just kept letting the winnings ride.  We kept winning.  By the 4th race we had attracted quite a crowd, cheering, laughing and egging us on. The bookie was looking a bit concerned.  We won again. After winning the 5th race we decided to quit whilst we were ahead and take our winnings.  Beginners luck.  

Casinos and race meetings are fascinating places  to people watch.  You really do get all sorts.  At the casino the most reckless gamblers were the Chinese.  They would lose small fortunes and act as if it didn't matter.  "Keeping Face" lol.  I found the same when we were in China.  They will bet on anything.  It seems to be a macho thing.  

Roller coaster rides.....no thanks. They make me feel ill and give me vertigo.  I once visited a lighthouse in Orkney and passed out.  Not my finest hour.  My vertigo seems to come and go.  Once went for a walk along the cliffs at Lands End. The vertigo was so bad, my poor husband had to practically carry me back to the car. And yet i am fine with chair lifts and cable cars.  Go figure.  Lol. 

Looking back the most reckless thing I did was hitch hiking. Didn't give it a second thought. It was a different matter when I had my own children. I even hated them getting taxis, even when they were with their mates. I much preferred it when they let us pick them up.  

 I was never really happy until they were home safe and sound.......

Apart from the responsibility of becoming a parent, times have changed a lot in our attitude to safety and risk.
Remember you could drive drunk without a seatbelt as one example.
Also rose tinted spectacles have a place as many seem to think the world is a more dangerous place nowadays, than it was in the good old days, when they as children could play out on their own without fear of abduction etc.
Just think about the Moors Murders ! ( which happened close to where I lived and I was about the same age) .

Albermarle

helensbiggestfan said:

I am becoming increasingly wary of eating out. It can be a risky business.  My BIL is a chef. He tells me stories about some of our city's eating places.  No thanks. !!!  I also had a friend who was a food technician.  She wouldn't touch Mr Kiplings exceedingly good cakes.   Lol. You're right commercial  kitchens can be dangerous places.  One of the stupidest things I ever did was eat a donna kebab.  Never again!!!  

I'm definitely going to give stoozing a try this year.  After I have moved house (hopefully March time) I will completely reorganise my finances including changing banks etc to get better deals.  Then once the dust is settled I will start looking at resurrecting my sideline hustles and also be on the lookout for further money  making opportunities.  

Moving house is an expensive business, the fees alone can make one weep.  I want to build up the war chest again with a view to building up generational wealth.  I have already helped my sons, giving them an early inheritance to get them off to a good start.  And of course they can have what's left when I'm gone. But what I really want to do is try and build up extra funds for my grandchildren.  I was never a trust fund babe but hopefully my grandsons can be.  Ha ha.  

And of course I still want to be able to spend on myself, some travel, hobbies, a fabulous wardrobe.  Then further down the line, when I'm really decrepit to be able to afford domestic help so I can remain independent for as long as possible,  

Well that's the plan.........

I think that for many of us traditional retirement is something of an outdated concept.  We may not be in paid employment but that doesn't mean we can't "work".  We can be "senpreneurs". (Senior entrepreneurs). 

There are also many professions where it is not necessary to retire. Just look at how many actors, artists, singers, scientists, lawyers, etc keep going well into their 80s and beyond. Judy Dench who is pushing 90 and David Attenborough who is 98.  Not to forget our old friends the Rolling Stones who must have a collective age of at least 450.lol.   Instead of retiring they just scale back, picking and choosing projects that appeal.

  I once worked for a solicitor who was 82.  He came into the office three days a week.  Arriving at 10, disappearing for lunch with either a client or his cronies at 12, coming back into the office at 3 for a little doze and to sign his correspondence, going home at 4.  He was as sharp as a knife, his intellectual capacity undiminished.  

If you are in good health then there is no need to stop doing what you love. And even those who have health issues can often find a work around.   In professions where retirement is mandatory you can still use your knowledge and skills to create new opportunities. 

I had a customer, who was a part owner of the business and did not want to retire . He was also coming into the office in his eighties part time, meeting people, suppliers etc.
However it got embarrassing in the end. You have to know when to stop as well !

Pat38493

Albermarle said:

helensbiggestfan said:

LL_USS said:

Interesting discussion regarding risks...

It is indeed a culture-bound attitude. Chinese, South East people tend to take the golden middle point, not showing anything extreme especially in public, and call it "playing the stock market". Americans have higher percentage of their assets in stocks and shares whilst British favour a higher percentage in property (well, let's see how much this trend will change after all the tightening rules for the BTL sector).

Whilst I am risk-adverse in general, I still think if I don't try lots of things when I am still quite young then I will never experence these when I am older. I cycle to work even when I am warned our roads are not cyclist friendly. Scared at first but I thought "little kids could go so why not me", so I then went on all the most "scary" roller coaster rides when I took my children to Disney Land/ Alton Towers/ Thorpe park.... I ride a moped (only with a bit of hesitation ) when I travel in Asia. Perhaps still not skiing though :-).

My husband  and I used to go to a casino sometimes. I know, I know.  My poor dad was horrified,  but my husband and I enjoyed it.  We were sensible, we gave ourselves a budget and stuck to it. If we lost our stake we quit.  If we did well we quit whilst we were ahead.  Oddly enough our track record was pretty good.  Obviously the only real "winner" in the long term is the house , same with bookies.  

As an aside I once made a killing at Ascot on Ladies Day and all for a £1 stake. . There were 5 ladies in our group.  So for the first race we put £5 between us on no 5.  It won. Not knowing how to play the game properly we put the lot on no 5 for the second race. It won.  After that we did change our numbers but we just kept letting the winnings ride.  We kept winning.  By the 4th race we had attracted quite a crowd, cheering, laughing and egging us on. The bookie was looking a bit concerned.  We won again. After winning the 5th race we decided to quit whilst we were ahead and take our winnings.  Beginners luck.  

Casinos and race meetings are fascinating places  to people watch.  You really do get all sorts.  At the casino the most reckless gamblers were the Chinese.  They would lose small fortunes and act as if it didn't matter.  "Keeping Face" lol.  I found the same when we were in China.  They will bet on anything.  It seems to be a macho thing.  

Roller coaster rides.....no thanks. They make me feel ill and give me vertigo.  I once visited a lighthouse in Orkney and passed out.  Not my finest hour.  My vertigo seems to come and go.  Once went for a walk along the cliffs at Lands End. The vertigo was so bad, my poor husband had to practically carry me back to the car. And yet i am fine with chair lifts and cable cars.  Go figure.  Lol. 

Looking back the most reckless thing I did was hitch hiking. Didn't give it a second thought. It was a different matter when I had my own children. I even hated them getting taxis, even when they were with their mates. I much preferred it when they let us pick them up.  

 I was never really happy until they were home safe and sound.......

Apart from the responsibility of becoming a parent, times have changed a lot in our attitude to safety and risk.
Remember you could drive drunk without a seatbelt as one example.
Also rose tinted spectacles have a place as many seem to think the world is a more dangerous place nowadays, than it was in the good old days, when they as children could play out on their own without fear of abduction etc.
Just think about the Moors Murders ! ( which happened close to where I lived and I was about the same age) .

If you want to understand the terrifying extent to which most of us believe that today's world is a much worse place than it was in the past, and much worse than it actually is, I reccomend the book "Factfullness" by Hans Rosling.

helensbiggestfan

However much I have enjoyed my life I don't have rose tinted spectacles.  

Good Old Days??  Nah, you can keep them.  Lol.

 Yes, I remember the Moors Murders (and the Yorkshire Ripper).  Sadly such crimes have always existed.  The point I was trying to make about my stupidity in hitch hiking is that at the time I was naive in thinking nothing bad could happen.  Either that or youthful arrogance.  It was only when I became older and a little wiser and less headstrong that I realised just how lucky I was to have come through unscathed.  

I wont bore you all to death with tales of growing up poor and I've no wish to get political but suffice it to say I do think that certainly, in a material sense, life is easier now. Better housing, better working conditions, and, thanks to the strides made in the 60s and 70s with equality legislation etc generally a fairer society.  (There's still room for improvement of course). 

Thanks to the Sex Discrimination Act of 1975 women were finally able to sign credit agreements in their own name. I quickly took advantage and signed up for my first mortgage early 1976.  Never looked back. 

helensbiggestfan

Albermarle said:

helensbiggestfan said:

I am becoming increasingly wary of eating out. It can be a risky business.  My BIL is a chef. He tells me stories about some of our city's eating places.  No thanks. !!!  I also had a friend who was a food technician.  She wouldn't touch Mr Kiplings exceedingly good cakes.   Lol. You're right commercial  kitchens can be dangerous places.  One of the stupidest things I ever did was eat a donna kebab.  Never again!!!  

I'm definitely going to give stoozing a try this year.  After I have moved house (hopefully March time) I will completely reorganise my finances including changing banks etc to get better deals.  Then once the dust is settled I will start looking at resurrecting my sideline hustles and also be on the lookout for further money  making opportunities.  

Moving house is an expensive business, the fees alone can make one weep.  I want to build up the war chest again with a view to building up generational wealth.  I have already helped my sons, giving them an early inheritance to get them off to a good start.  And of course they can have what's left when I'm gone. But what I really want to do is try and build up extra funds for my grandchildren.  I was never a trust fund babe but hopefully my grandsons can be.  Ha ha.  

And of course I still want to be able to spend on myself, some travel, hobbies, a fabulous wardrobe.  Then further down the line, when I'm really decrepit to be able to afford domestic help so I can remain independent for as long as possible,  

Well that's the plan.........

I think that for many of us traditional retirement is something of an outdated concept.  We may not be in paid employment but that doesn't mean we can't "work".  We can be "senpreneurs". (Senior entrepreneurs). 

There are also many professions where it is not necessary to retire. Just look at how many actors, artists, singers, scientists, lawyers, etc keep going well into their 80s and beyond. Judy Dench who is pushing 90 and David Attenborough who is 98.  Not to forget our old friends the Rolling Stones who must have a collective age of at least 450.lol.   Instead of retiring they just scale back, picking and choosing projects that appeal.

  I once worked for a solicitor who was 82.  He came into the office three days a week.  Arriving at 10, disappearing for lunch with either a client or his cronies at 12, coming back into the office at 3 for a little doze and to sign his correspondence, going home at 4.  He was as sharp as a knife, his intellectual capacity undiminished.  

If you are in good health then there is no need to stop doing what you love. And even those who have health issues can often find a work around.   In professions where retirement is mandatory you can still use your knowledge and skills to create new opportunities. 

I had a customer, who was a part owner of the business and did not want to retire . He was also coming into the office in his eighties part time, meeting people, suppliers etc.
However it got embarrassing in the end. You have to know when to stop as well !

Interesting. How did it become embarrassing. Was it due to a decline in cognitive function.  I must confess that is something I fear, more than a decline in physical ability.  

My parents both died just a couple of months shy of their 90th birthdays. Both remained sharp as tacks right till the end. Maybe I'll be ok. 🤞

Nebulous2

Organgrinder said:

Apologies for returning to the subject of risk etc, but recently I was on a school residential with activities ranging from raft building to rock climbing and high ropes courses. The instructors asked the students what the most dangerous places were in the centre.

Of course, they all chose things like the climbing. No, said the instructor, they are the safest. The most dangerous place in the centre is the canteen.

Most things, if done well, with appropriate training, equipment etc are very safe. 

And I guess the same is true for many of the things we do to make money. Stoozing for example frightens many, but if managed is very low risk for a nice little bit of extra.

So go on, dive in, you never know, you might enjoy spending the returns! ;-)

Good example @Organgrinder That's the point I was trying to put across, the difference between risk and perceived risk. 

Nice linkage with financial risk and reward as well. Part of the problem is so often we won't try things that lie beyond our comfort zone. 

Unfortunately, as we get older, we pull our comfort zone closer and closer. There may be a need to do that with cognitive and physical decline, but I see many people who greatly restrict themselves ahead of that decline. 

I've only been a very occasional gambler, but I sense it would have an attraction for me, which is one reason why I avoid it. I've seen people claim to have made quite a bit of money from matched betting. Other than a very basic outline, I don't know what that entails, but I have been wary of poking that slumbering beast. 

Organgrinder

Nebulous2 said:

Organgrinder said:

Apologies for returning to the subject of risk etc, but recently I was on a school residential with activities ranging from raft building to rock climbing and high ropes courses. The instructors asked the students what the most dangerous places were in the centre.

Of course, they all chose things like the climbing. No, said the instructor, they are the safest. The most dangerous place in the centre is the canteen.

Most things, if done well, with appropriate training, equipment etc are very safe. 

And I guess the same is true for many of the things we do to make money. Stoozing for example frightens many, but if managed is very low risk for a nice little bit of extra.

So go on, dive in, you never know, you might enjoy spending the returns! ;-)

Good example @Organgrinder That's the point I was trying to put across, the difference between risk and perceived risk. 

Nice linkage with financial risk and reward as well. Part of the problem is so often we won't try things that lie beyond our comfort zone. 

Unfortunately, as we get older, we pull our comfort zone closer and closer. There may be a need to do that with cognitive and physical decline, but I see many people who greatly restrict themselves ahead of that decline. 

I've only been a very occasional gambler, but I sense it would have an attraction for me, which is one reason why I avoid it. I've seen people claim to have made quite a bit of money from matched betting. Other than a very basic outline, I don't know what that entails, but I have been wary of poking that slumbering beast. 

I am exactly the same, although I have made a little from matched betting. However I didn't like the feeling it gave me when I did it so I no longer do it. It felt it was all too easy to make a mistake.

I agree many restrict themselves unnecessarily. But at the end of the day if people are happy with their decisions then there's usually nothing wrong in that. However, I cannot abide it when people say they cannot afford certain things then state they have no interest in doing something that would enable them to get the money (for free). I find such closed minds very strange.

Nebulous2

Albermarle said:

helensbiggestfan said:

I am becoming increasingly wary of eating out. It can be a risky business.  My BIL is a chef. He tells me stories about some of our city's eating places.  No thanks. !!!  I also had a friend who was a food technician.  She wouldn't touch Mr Kiplings exceedingly good cakes.   Lol. You're right commercial  kitchens can be dangerous places.  One of the stupidest things I ever did was eat a donna kebab.  Never again!!!  

I'm definitely going to give stoozing a try this year.  After I have moved house (hopefully March time) I will completely reorganise my finances including changing banks etc to get better deals.  Then once the dust is settled I will start looking at resurrecting my sideline hustles and also be on the lookout for further money  making opportunities.  

Moving house is an expensive business, the fees alone can make one weep.  I want to build up the war chest again with a view to building up generational wealth.  I have already helped my sons, giving them an early inheritance to get them off to a good start.  And of course they can have what's left when I'm gone. But what I really want to do is try and build up extra funds for my grandchildren.  I was never a trust fund babe but hopefully my grandsons can be.  Ha ha.  

And of course I still want to be able to spend on myself, some travel, hobbies, a fabulous wardrobe.  Then further down the line, when I'm really decrepit to be able to afford domestic help so I can remain independent for as long as possible,  

Well that's the plan.........

I think that for many of us traditional retirement is something of an outdated concept.  We may not be in paid employment but that doesn't mean we can't "work".  We can be "senpreneurs". (Senior entrepreneurs). 

There are also many professions where it is not necessary to retire. Just look at how many actors, artists, singers, scientists, lawyers, etc keep going well into their 80s and beyond. Judy Dench who is pushing 90 and David Attenborough who is 98.  Not to forget our old friends the Rolling Stones who must have a collective age of at least 450.lol.   Instead of retiring they just scale back, picking and choosing projects that appeal.

  I once worked for a solicitor who was 82.  He came into the office three days a week.  Arriving at 10, disappearing for lunch with either a client or his cronies at 12, coming back into the office at 3 for a little doze and to sign his correspondence, going home at 4.  He was as sharp as a knife, his intellectual capacity undiminished.  

If you are in good health then there is no need to stop doing what you love. And even those who have health issues can often find a work around.   In professions where retirement is mandatory you can still use your knowledge and skills to create new opportunities. 

I had a customer, who was a part owner of the business and did not want to retire . He was also coming into the office in his eighties part time, meeting people, suppliers etc.
However it got embarrassing in the end. You have to know when to stop as well !

I was involved in a building project where the architect was in his late 70s. The whole project was drawn (very skillfully) on an old-fashioned board. He was a very reluctant user of email, preferring face-to-face meetings. He was very hands on during the build and got the best out of the contractors / tradesmen.

It wasn't so much that he was embarrassing, more that he was an analogue professional, in a digital world. I doubt if he charged full professional rates for the hours he put in  -  how he worked was very labour intensive- we couldn't have afforded it. 

Eventually, I understand, retirement was forced on him because his business partner insisted on retiring and getting his share of the value of their offices in an expensive area. 

helensbiggestfan

I also tried matched betting. Made a bit but found it a bit nerve wracking so didn't really pursue it.  

I like to think I am  reasonably intelligent but I have to admit I do find keeping up with technology a problem.  It is one thing that is definitely out of my comfort zone but I keep trying.

 I had some private lessons a couple of years ago. I paid a tutor to give me one on one sessions. It helped enormously but I feel I could do with a refresher course.  I intend engaging a tutor again once I am settled in my new home.