Plumber Bill Dispute

bjf02031986

Hi, we purchased a house in the summer and hired a plumber to install central heating and a new bathroom. We sent plans, 3D models and the exact products that we’d like to fit to the plumber, who produced two quotes, one for the heating and one for the bathroom. The work took them four months in the end, as they were so disorganised and would just pop in here in and there spending the odd hour on it, despite them originally saying approx one week. Their estimate quotes were 6k for heating, 4k for the bathroom which was roughly what a few other plumbers quoted. He was vague with how accurate the estimate was so I sent a thorough list saying clearly that were happy to proceed for a set fee of 10k and fully listed again any specific details, he accepted this and verbally said any extra we’d deal with at the time but it should be there or there abouts. First invoice received for 7k a month or two later, promptly paid. Second invoice received today, completely out the of the blue as we’ve not seen them for two months and the downstairs heating is being finished when the plastering is done, for £4800 so £1,800 over budget saying that’s how long it took them. Long story short I reeled off 50% of the bathroom quote that he produced for things he didn’t do, his only extra was to replace a cast iron svp internally with a upvc one (I expected maybe £400 more for this but he didn’t say a price).  The boiler hasn’t been signed off by gas safe because they’ve forgotten to do it, wasn’t wired even and was connected using a multiplug running from a bedroom even though the quote said all associated electrical works with the boiler, and all sorts of other issues.  I’ve said I’m happy to pay the outstanding £3,000 once the boiler is gas safe signed off but won’t be paying the extra £1,800, do this sound fair and where do I stand legally? Thanks

SpiderLegs

Given what you’ve said I would get a reputable central heating engineer to evaluate the work before paying them anything else. 

davidmcn

This isn't a House Buying, Renting or Selling matter. I see you've also posted this on Consumer Rights, which seems more appropriate.

Doozergirl

Sounds fair. 

If you put what set fee you were willing to pay, which is similar to his estimate, in writing along with a detailed specification and he's provided nothing other than that in writing since then, then the plumber is on shaky ground.  

Extras should also be agreed in advance but a lot of builders rely on trust, so it's right to pay what is fair, but of course not more.  

 Make a proper list of the 'extras' that were actually included or done by others just so you're getting your ducks in a row, just in case.  

I'd be doing the same as you.  Retain all cards (money) until the Gas Safe certificate is forthcoming.  

greatcrested

You seem to have allowed the job to drag on far longer than it should, and I suspect, not kept fully on top of what was being done.

You also seem to have paid a significant part of the total cost very early in the project.

And you also seem to have accepted an 'estimate', backed up by verbal assurances, rather than getting a formal written quote for a major project.

All the above are lessons to learn....

Having said that, you should now pay nothing more until

* all work is completed, and tested by you, to your complete satisfaction ie you've seen hot water produced, all radiators hot, thermostats/timer etc all checked/working, no bathroom leaks etc

* potentially the work is reviewed by another qualified gasSafe engineer (would be at you cost but worth considering)

* all documentation is provided - boiler install certification, manufactuer warranty, electrical sign off (Builbing Regs or an electician who is a registered 'Competant Person'), user guides, , etc

If, and only if, you are fully satisfied with the work should you pay the outstanding £3000.

He can then claim the extra £1,800 if he wishes - come back here if/when he does so.

bjf02031986

Yes it was pretty much bang on his estimate, I think his two added together were £10,050 so I said happy to go with £10k fixed if we use you for both and again emphasised that the budget is tight and if it was going to cost more than that that we weren’t happy to proceed.

He’s listed 4 or 5 things as extras, with only the SVP being raised at the time as being an extra, which were of course happy to pay a sensible fee for.  I’ve itemised everything in the quote that he hasn’t done; strip out of existing bathroom and all tiles and finishes, provided a mini skip for waste disposal, all electrical work amongst other things and highlighted things that are in the quote which he’s now saying are an extra. He also started by apologising for taking so long to get the invoice over then asks for immediate payment saying they’ve been carrying the job for a few months, when we’ve literally had the money sat in our account waiting for the bill.

bjf02031986

greatcrested said:

You seem to have allowed the job to drag on far longer than it should, and I suspect, not kept fully on top of what was being done.

You also seem to have paid a significant part of the total cost very early in the project.

And you also seem to have accepted an 'estimate', backed up by verbal assurances, rather than getting a formal written quote for a major project.

All the above are lessons to learn....

Having said that, you should now pay nothing more until

* all work is completed, and tested by you, to your complete satisfaction ie you've seen hot water produced, all radiators hot, thermostats/timer etc all checked/working, no bathroom leaks etc

* potentially the work is reviewed by another qualified gasSafe engineer (would be at you cost but worth considering)

* all documentation is provided - boiler install certification, manufactuer warranty, electrical sign off (Builbing Regs or an electician who is a registered 'Competant Person'), user guides, , etc

If, and only if, you are fully satisfied with the work should you pay the outstanding £3000.

He can then claim the extra £1,800 if he wishes - come back here if/when he does so.

Thanks, yes you’re right we did let it drag on longer than we should have, I was trying to be nice because he seemed rushed off his feet and we were in no hurry where we completely gutted the place.  In terms of work carried out though, absolutely not I was there frequently discussing almost every item with zero mention of additional cost for anything other than an SVP, I’m an architect myself and have quite a bit of DIY/trades experience so am reasonably aware of what is sensible to charge extra for.  You’re completely right though lesson learnt for the future with accepting and estimate, I assumed at the time my thorough listing of what was needed and confirming the set price we were happy to proceed with was sufficient, when even if legally it may be it makes things cloudy I guess.