BW LEGAL Court Claim - Wrong Issued Address

Umkomaas

an aledged offence in July 2019.

I'm not entirely sure who was driving.

I bet 95% of the population with vehicles having multi-user drivers wouldn't remember who was driving on a random date some 18 months or so ago.   I'm sure a Judge will understand this. 

Coupon-mad

The Judge in the Coastway Vets case understood completely and just asked the D one question ''do you have any recollection which of you was driving?''  The D replied ''No, I don't, Sir''.  And the Judge paused and said ''Well that torpedoes that issue, then!''  And we won on the POFA argument as well as on unclear signs and no grace period.

davejamesman

Coupon-mad said:

The Judge in the Coastway Vets case understood completely and just asked the D one question ''do you have any recollection which of you was driving?''  The D replied ''No, I don't, Sir''.  And the Judge paused and said ''Well that torpedoes that issue, then!''  And we won on the POFA argument as well as on unclear signs and no grace period.

That's certainly reassuring. I can only hope it's that simple

Here's what I have so far for paras 2 & 3:

2.  It is admitted that the Defendant was the registered keeper of the vehicle in question but liability is denied. The Defendant states that there are two drivers that drive the car, therefore there are two possible drivers who may have actually parked the car that day and in the absence of any evidence, the balance of probabilities is not tipped either way. Therefore, the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4 ('the POFA') would be the only way for the registered keeper Defendant to be liable in law.  The Claimant has failed or neglected to use that Act.  

3.  The PCN was issued too late for keeper liability and the Claimant admitted at appeal stage ''POFA was not stated in the charge''.  There can be no keeper liability outside of Schedule 4 of the POFA."

Thank you so much to Coupon-mad and KeithP, and to everyone else with sound advice. I'll go ahead and submit my defence this morning unless I've missed something.

Coupon-mad

It wasn't simple.  It was a 1.5 hour hearing.  Read the Coastway Vets thread from a couple of weeks ago - it comes up when you search.

nosferatu1001

I would state that it was an unremarkable date x months or years ago and the defendant does not know who drove. Then state there are two possible drivers etc. 

davejamesman

nosferatu1001 said:

I would state that it was an unremarkable date x months or years ago and the defendant does not know who drove. Then state there are two possible drivers etc. 

Wonderful, that should do it. I'll submit it now.

I'll read the highlights of the Coastway Vets thread.

Coupon-mad

It's not the same as your case but shows what a court hearing is like and what a Judge might make of it all.

davejamesman

Coupon-mad said:

It's not the same as your case but shows what a court hearing is like and what a Judge might make of it all.

Yeah, looks like it came down to signage and being unable to identify the driver. I admit, I did only flick through the paragraphs. However I didn't read anywhere that confirmed how long the defendant was parked for. Are they just taking the defendants word that he was there 4 minutes, or is it the principle, that the OPS was unable to verify how long they parked for.

Umkomaas

Are they just taking the defendants word that he was there 4 minutes, or is it the principle, that the OPS was unable to verify how long they parked for.

It's always for the claimant to prove their case. 

Coupon-mad

davejamesman said:

Coupon-mad said:

It's not the same as your case but shows what a court hearing is like and what a Judge might make of it all.

Yeah, looks like it came down to signage and being unable to identify the driver. I admit, I did only flick through the paragraphs. However I didn't read anywhere that confirmed how long the defendant was parked for. Are they just taking the defendants word that he was there 4 minutes, or is it the principle, that the OPS was unable to verify how long they parked for.

The photos were only taken over 4 minutes and that parade of shops is not somewhere he or his wife would have 'parked' and left the car because they lived locally, with ample free parking on street.  You have to go by what the photo timings say.  A lot of PPCs only take pics across less than 5 minutes.