Self-Assessment Tax Return -- really confused

lvakq

Hi, I'm in a bit of a mare for a couple reasons and would really appreciate some help. This is my current situation:

•  I own a small company (I am its only member), set up in May 2019. It has not received any income. Because I own the company/am a director, I need to file a Self-Assessment Tax Return.

• I work for an agency part time (teaching). I am not an employee of the agency and because I made >£1000 between April 2019 -- April 2020, I need to file a Self-Assessment Tax Return from this angle too.

My company has a Unique Taxpayer Reference but I do not, and am therefore past the 5th of October deadline to register. For whatever reason I looked over this and only had the 31st of January deadline kept in mind, my fault entirely. I am now trying to register but am lost as to what I should be putting down. When the form asks about business information, should I be putting both my company information, or that of the company for which I worked as a teacher? The wording of all this is confusing between me having done services for another company & me owning a company through which I have not made any money.

PS if anyone has any idea of how bad the fine will be for missing the registration deadline, I wouldn't mind being told. I've only managed to find a £100 figure but that is for late returns rather than late registration... 

Dazed_and_C0nfused

Firstly you cannot be fined £100 for late filing of something you haven't been asked to file.

Once you do register you will get 3 months from when HMRC issue the return to file it (without penalty).

You need to distinguish between you and the company.

sheramber

So are you saying you are a    director of a limited company  who has not received any income/dividends for it
and
You are working as a teacher  through an agency on a self employed  basis?
 If so for registering for self assessment you are a director of a company
and you are self employed as a teacher 
Two potential sources of income.

lvakq

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Firstly you cannot be fined £100 for late filing of something you haven't been asked to file.

Hm so because I haven't been sent a document requesting me to file, it's acceptable to have missed the registration deadline? This seems strange to me.

sheramber said:

So are you saying you are a    director of a limited company  who has not received any income/dividends for it
and
You are working as a teacher  through an agency on a self employed  basis?

Yes precisely. What I'm confused by is, on the HMRC online form, I am required to fill out information on 'The Business'. I don't see an option to do so twice, for each of my cases. Then on a closer scale, in the personal details one question is "are you a Director" for instance, am I meant to say "yes" regardless of whether I am talking about the teaching agency or my limited company?

Thank you for the help by the way, I'm finding this weirdly difficult to get my head around...

MDMD

lvakq said:

PS if anyone has any idea of how bad the fine will be for missing the registration deadline, I wouldn't mind being told. I've only managed to find a £100 figure but that is for late returns rather than late registration... 

Dazed_and_C0nfused said:

Firstly you cannot be fined £100 for late filing of something you haven't been asked to file.

Once you do register you will get 3 months from when HMRC issue the return to file it (without penalty).

You need to distinguish between you and the company.

I think you said that you don’t expect to owe anything? If so then this won’t apply but for completeness you need to be aware that there are two other penalties on top of the standard £100. Payment deadlines are usually unchanged when a return is issued late, so you can quite possibly be in the situation when the tax is due before the return.

• late payment surcharge  (which Is usually 5%, based on anything owing at the end of January), and
•  a failure to notify penalty which is applied when the registration deadline is missed but is again based on the amount of tax.

Surcharge: https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/self-assessment-legal-framework/salf307

Failure to notify: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/877263/CC-FS11.pdf

Interest is also charged on the tax.

lvakq

MDMD said:
 I think you said that you don’t expect to owe anything? If so then this won’t apply but for completeness you need to be aware that there are two other penalties on top of the standard £100. Payment deadlines are usually unchanged when a return is issued late, so you can quite possibly be in the situation when the tax is due before the return.

Apologies if I was unclear: between April 2019 - April 2020 I made less than the tax-free allowance so indeed, should not owe anything. But equally, from what I understand if I've made more than £1000, I need to complete a tax return, and the deadline for registering (so that I can complete the return) was 5th of October. Have I misunderstood how this works?

Jeremy535897

Personally I would follow the government guidance here:
https://www.gov.uk/register-for-self-assessment/self-employed

There is technically a £100 fine for not saying you were self employed by 5 October in the second year of the business, but it may well not be charged. Ignore the directorship at this stage as it was not a source of income, but you can complete the employment pages on the SA return for 2019/20 showing nil from the company. Does it have a PAYE reference as well as a UTR?

Pennywise

You need to recognise that your are NOT self employed or in business re your Limited company activities - so you don't enter any limited company income/expenses on your self employment section of the personal tax return.  What you do enter is your wages, dividends and taxable benefits in kind from your limited company (if any).  The company's income and expenses are reported on it's statutory accounts which in turn are reported on the company's corporation tax return.  A lot of people don't fully understand the legal/tax distinction between themselves as individuals and the limited company, as a separate legal entity.
Your self employment re teaching is completely different and may require you to complete the self employment section of the personal SA return (or you may declare it as "other income" if appropriate).
So, re dates for SA registration are two fold, firstly the start date of your teaching self employment, and secondly, the start date of you becoming a limited company director.  I'd suggest you use whichever was earlier.

sheramber

You register as self employed as a teacher- that is the business asked about.
When you complete your self assessment tax return you are asked   what sources of income you have.
You need self employment -pages  for the teaching- and employment pages for the income as a director.
You complete the self employment pages with your income/expenditure details from your teaching.
You complete teh employment pages showing nil income from being a director.
Remember you need to complete any other income information such as  bank interest, pension income , dividends income etc.

lvakq

Jeremy535897 said:

Does it have a PAYE reference as well as a UTR?

It does not no.

sheramber said:

You register as self employed as a teacher- that is the business asked about.
When you complete your self assessment tax return you are asked   what sources of income you have.
You need self employment -pages  for the teaching- and employment pages for the income as a director.
You complete the self employment pages with your income/expenditure details from your teaching.
You complete teh employment pages showing nil income from being a director.
Remember you need to complete any other income information such as  bank interest, pension income , dividends income etc.

So for instance, in the registration form, there is a section for Business contact details. I would've thought I should put in the teaching agency's email, but it then says: Please note: You must provide an email address if you want HMRC to send you an email acknowledging receipt of your registration. So it's no longer clear to me which email I should be putting down exactly (the teaching agency, or my personal one), do they mean they'll send an email to the business contact email? Ugh. Thanks for the help by the way.

Jeremy535897

It is your business the form is talking about, not your customer's business. The agency is a customer of your self employed business.