Link-Detached Conversion - Noise question

davidmcn

Anesthaesia said:

the entrance to that space to be via an external door connected to a party wall?

I'm not sure what a door "connected to a party wall" is. A diagram might help. 

ProDave

So neither of you have converted the garages properly to building regs standards?  And then you wonder why you hear noise through a single skin wall never intended for a habitable room?

Oh and for both of you, your "link detached" houses are now semi detached and worth less.

Anesthaesia

ProDave said:

So neither of you have converted the garages properly to building regs standards?  And then you wonder why you hear noise through a single skin wall never intended for a habitable room?

Oh and for both of you, your "link detached" houses are now semi detached and worth less.

I have looked into regs but have not found anything indicating that either has been done incorrectly, since neither have had plumbing added or any excavation.
Yes I would have loved a cavity wall, but haven't seen where that is a requirement in the building regulations for a garage conversion. Or am I missing the point about what building regs are? Can you advise how these have not been converted "properly to building regs standards?" ?
As I pointed out in my post, at no point have I been responsible for any part of the conversion.

Neil49

What comments were made about the conversion by your property surveyor when you purchased the property in 2009? It could be that the conversion was made without any, or minimal, consideration of building regs.

The fact that you don't have any sound insulation on your side of the party wall implies that it wasn't converted particularly well in that respect. If you expect them to install insulation then it would seem appropriate that you do the same.

The original house construction was not designed for this part of the property to be lived in so by changing its use you will have to make the best of the situation.

ciderboy2009

Anesthaesia said:

ProDave said:

So neither of you have converted the garages properly to building regs standards?  And then you wonder why you hear noise through a single skin wall never intended for a habitable room?

Oh and for both of you, your "link detached" houses are now semi detached and worth less.

I have looked into regs but have not found anything indicating that either has been done incorrectly, since neither have had plumbing added or any excavation.
Yes I would have loved a cavity wall, but haven't seen where that is a requirement in the building regulations for a garage conversion. Or am I missing the point about what building regs are? Can you advise how these have not been converted "properly to building regs standards?" ?
As I pointed out in my post, at no point have I been responsible for any part of the conversion.

A quick Google and I found this which seems to cover your situation:

"Yes, a garage conversion will need Building Regs approval.

You or your builder will need to adhere to the Building Regulations when converting an attached garage into habitable space. The Regs apply to various aspects of the construction, including:

• thermal performance
• acoustics
• fire safety
• ventilation."

Regardless of whether or not you were responsible for the conversion it is your property so you are the one responsible for ensuring the legality of it.  I'm really surprised that your surveyor didn't suggest that you got confirmation of building regs approval for the conversion.

Anesthaesia

Thanks ciderboy2009,
When I purchased the property I did not have a survey done. Put this down to being young and naive, and coming from a country where I had never experienced the disputes and building reg issues I commonly see here. But you learn as you go, and I appreciate that is my problem, not the neighbour's.

Our conversion is watertight, electrics are on a seperate circuit, the door from the garden was removed and replaced with a window, and entrance was made to the conversion directly from the property (opening from the dining room with no door fitted). The garage door was removed and a full-width window was fitted. Tapping the plasterboard on the "party wall" sounds less 'hollow' than the plasterboard on the house-side of the conversion, which would lead me to think that there is some kind of insulation on the party wall side. My first thought is that considering the extent of the work that was done, it is was within building regs.
Whether the insulation was intended to be thermal as well as acoustic, I can't say, but I now need to find a record of our conversion - is this something that is publicly available, or would it have been down to me to obtain this when purchasing the house?

Their "conversion" which took place over a couple of days, still has the garage door fitted, so I am assuming that fails at being watertight. They have no access from the main house, and the only access is via the original garage door into the garden.

In all honesty, having seen their pictures of the conversion they posted on social media, I am surprised we did not hear more noise during the conversion, which is reassuring. It also makes me more confident that when our side was converted, insulation was used.

The noise being created is not what I would consider "fair" which is why I have raised this. It's the screaming and shouting by the children, and the slamming of the garden door every time they enter/exit. And regardless of what type of insulation is used either side, the fact that door is connected to a single brick wall, we will always have our walls shake when it's opened/closed. I'm struggling to understand how the above could be considered fair use, when they now have a cavity wall between them and their kids, and we have a single wall.

Maybe another way I should be looking at it is that it's simply a building they have available to them that they can do with as they please - as someone pointed out it could be a car revving in their garage. But does that mean they can turn it into a living space with electrics, musical instruments and gaming equipment and just scream and shout as much as they please, and be entitled to make noise any time of day or night? Surely under those conditions most people would feel frustrated.

If moving is our only option then so be it, but not until I have looked at what our options are. 

Soot2006

It's not a living space really as it's not accessible from the house and it's probably really REALLY cold. It's just a glorified shed where they send the kids so they're not in the house all day long. Electrics are normal in any garage so it's an odd thing to single out. And many many people use an unconverted or semi-converted garage as a workshop, or crafts area, potting shed, etc ... 

The plasterwall they put in front of the garage door is just as easy to remove again. Not even half a day's work.  As such I would argue your neighbours haven't actually converted anything; rather they've repurposed the use of a pre-existing outbuilding.

Children playing usually isn't considered a noise nuisance during the day, however they will all be back at school soon and if it's only accessible from the garden, then it's unlikely to become a popular evening area for the kids in the winter. Summer might be different, but they'll maybe be outside a bit more anyway.

SpiderLegs

Anesthaesia said:

Maybe another way I should be looking at it is that it's simply a building they have available to them that they can do with as they please - as someone pointed out it could be a car revving in their garage. But does that mean they can turn it into a living space with electrics, musical instruments and gaming equipment and just scream and shout as much as they please, and be entitled to make noise any time of day or night? Surely under those conditions most people would feel frustrated.

Yes that is exactly the way you should be looking at it. Your conversion was done on the cheap. You have not magically acquired some rights that determine or limit the rights of your neighbours.
if you are frustrated it should only be at your own failure to properly understand the property which you were purchasing.

Anesthaesia

You've summed it up perfectly Soot2006, and sadly I felt this was the case all along but really didn't want it to be.

I just find it heartbreaking that at a time when we're being forced to work from home and be considerate, your life can be turned upside down by selfish individuals. I'd never put a neighbour through what we've had to endure from them.

I guess the only option then is to sell and move on. At least this has taught us a lot about link-detached properties and they are now certainly off the list.

Soot2006

Anesthaesia said:

You've summed it up perfectly Soot2006, and sadly I felt this was the case all along but really didn't want it to be.

I just find it heartbreaking that at a time when we're being forced to work from home and be considerate, your life can be turned upside down by selfish individuals. I'd never put a neighbour through what we've had to endure from them.

I guess the only option then is to sell and move on. At least this has taught us a lot about link-detached properties and they are now certainly off the list.

I am noise sensitive so I do sympathise with your situation, but selling the house seems a bit dramatic as you can end up with difficult, noisy, inconsiderate, bullying, or even violent neighbours wherever you are.  At the moment, the "new" playroom is fashionable so they're using it a lot. This probably won't last. Soon, the damp will seep through the insulation boards, the excitement will wear off ... and the kids will be back at school!

Give it a few months. I know the noise is upsetting, but selling/moving is also disruptive and with no guarantees of a better outcome.